"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch
"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch

Episode 105 · 3 weeks ago

Workplace Burnout: Why Workers are Suffering in Silence with Janet Fouts


As the song says, "Under Pressure". That is what many workers and leaders are feeling. Especially those in remote working situations.

The problem is many people just keep pushing forward without sharing the pressure or burnout and then it just explodes. Or leads to quitting or worse, it just simmers underneath the surface and it affects performance.

Workplace burnout is real. Janet Fouts, author and consultant left the agency she founded due to the burnout. She now helps organizations see the stress, deal with it and avoid the burnout phase through mindfulness and pausing to see what really is happening.

This is not about allowing process or performance to fall off, it is about fixing the root cause of the stress in order to accelerate.

Fascinating conversation. I know you will enjoy it.

don't forget to subscribe, share and rate the show!!

About Janet Fouts

After running a successful digital marketing agency for over 2 decades in Silicon Valley, she pivoted from digital marketing to mindfulness-based emotional intelligence training, offering solutions to mental fatigue and burnout.

Through mindfulness, Janet developed a resilient and pro-active approach to work and life with a renewed sense of purpose. Her upcoming book ‘Microdosed Mindfulness’ is a relateable, science-based answer to those who think mindfulness is “woo-woo nonsense” that takes too much time and saps productivity.

Janet learned from leading organizations including Stanford Center for Compassion and Altruism Research, the National

Wellness Institute, UCLA's MARC program, and the Search Inside Yourself Leadership Institute, (created at Google).

She’s the author of 7 books including ‘When Life Hits the Fan - A Guide to Self-care While Caring for Others’, and “Mindful Social Marketing, host of the 'Mindful Social’ podcast where she nterviews thought leaders. She’s spoken on corporate and conference stages for 20+ years including a Tedx talk and is the founder of ‘Nearly Mindful'.

Janet’s mission is to create stronger leaders, compassionate communicators, and better humans who will define the future of our work and ultimately our world.

Connect with Janet:

website: https://janetfouts.com/ 

About Glenn Pasch:

"Everyone finds themselves in charge at some point in their lives. Yet many of us lack the skills to generate consistent results. My goal is to help you learn the skills to adapt and grow in your personal and business life.”

Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, a full service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses create and deliver customers raving, recommending & returning for more. He is author of 2 books including "The Power of Connected Marketing" and has spoken and educated audiences throughout the US and internationally.

Let’s Connect:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennpasch/

Personal Website http://glennpasch.com/

Company website: https://pcgdigital.com/

Support for this episode comes from P CG digital. It is anywhere from difficult to impossible to manage everyaspect of the changing digital landscape. Rather than trying to do ityourself, why not leave it to an award winning team of Digital MarketingSpecialists who have mastered it all connect your message with morepotential customers with P C G digital go to P C G Digital Com for moreinformation. I welcome to another episode of Ur in charge conversationsthat spark change on your host Glen Pash. Today's episode focuses onmindfulness now before all of you, click off and say: Mindfulness, that'sa bunch of Cumbia bunch of Ho Ha you we need to be working. We can't bethinking about mindfulness and meditating, while we, but we havethings to achieve. The problem is with a lot of remote work force and thepressure that all of us are under right now in this environment there is a lotof burn out. There is a lot of reactive behavior in the workplace. There is alot of people who are really suffering in silence in the remote work placebecause they don't know how to connect with each other. They don't know whatthey should be doing and the only thing they default to is just working harderon the same process working longer feeling burnt out. So what should youdo? Well today, I brought janith outs. She is an author on the subject ofmindfulness and how to make sure that you are recharging your batteries inorder to be more present for your workers, your family's and moreimportant yourself yourself. Now you can say well how did this happen? Well,she ran a very high power digital agency in Selico valley for years untilshe hit the wall and realize that's not the way she needs to live, so she shares herjourney talks about what we can do to help ourselves in small, as she callsthem microdots of mindfulness to be able to re gain our footing to bepresent for ourselves present for our family and achieve more, but do it in amuch healthier way. So I'm really excited. This was a great episode,great conversation, so let's dive into it on your in charge, conversationsthat spark change with Janet touts. Okay, so Janet I've been excited. SinceI first heard about you, I started doing some research and I said I think you are a perfect person to have on theshow, because I think it's really timely what you're talking about- and Ireally want to dive into your journey about how you got here, but the thingthat stood out most I ould like to maybe start our conversation out aboutthat is this idea of many of us being disconnected remotely we're justworking more because we don't have to commute and do a lot of these thingswhere maybe we have a little release the sense of burn out. Where were jet, there's no time forreflection communication, it just seems to be work. Work, work, work, work, sotalk to me about that idea that you've been talking about mindfulness andtrying to regroup some of our our self in the in the process. Wow. Is that a loaded question there'sa lot of stuff in that yeah? I know what I I'll start out with you know:I've been working remotely since two thousand three so kind of for a while, and youknow for me it was normal to work roony. Even when I was managing my agency, weworked remote. We shut down the offices...

Gosh in ninety eight, so we pretty much,you know went remote, so the thing is is that people think this is going tobe easy. Even though it's been almost two years now, people are stillthinking. It should be easy for me to just work at home and everything'sgoing to be easy, but we forget that we are completely out of our element inmany many cases, there's so many different things going on with us. You know we have other people in thehome we're trying to work in our home, which may be an unnatural environmentright. So we don't pay enough attention to that and we forget that it's settingus off that we're triggered by things because we're home and we're not in ouroffice. I'm hearing from a lot of people that they're struggling withthis because they're so used to the culture that they had in the office,big offices, small offices, it doesn't matter they had a culture and nowthey're kind of alienated from it and as much as I love zoom and I teach onzoom a lot. It's not the be all and all no no, how we're going to connect withpeople. So so there was something you said at the beginning, and I think itreally applies to this. So one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight yeah.That seems so lo way way back. I'm old well join the club, it's okay, but thatidea that you made a conscious choice to shut down your office and moveremote, which is intentional. So now, when you're hiring your hiring peoplewho either already feel that's the way I want to work or that's the way I bestwork versus what happened to all of us. We were forced into this environment, so it's notsomething that we may be suited for long term right shortterm. We can probably most people can do most anything or deal with mostanything. So talk about that that difference between that you've seen when you wereconsciously intentionally saying we're going remote, here's who are going tohire versus what you're, seeing now from people that have been pushed intothis, who may want to come back but can't well, here's the thing that'sinteresting to me, maybe maybe to you, is that we got venture fund in one thousand,nine hundred and ninety six and we opened our office. We hired all thesepeople. You know we started a real agency which was amazing and excitingand so much fun, and it kind of drove me crazy that you know the way coderswork. They want to work at home anyway. They right now, so they weren't doing alot in the office. And then the COM crash happened. So it was really afinancial decision to say: okay, we're running this office with all thesecomputers and all these desks and everybody's going home anyway, becausethat's where they do their best work at three o'clock in the morning. So youknow it was really a decision based on finance and just being smarter abouthow we ran our business. So that's how we ended up there, but then I startedmeeting people that were contractors remotely all in the US or Canada, andthey all just said. You know I'm running my own business. I love what Ido. I love where I work, and this is the way I want to do business rightonce I started really connecting with those people and helping to supporttheir businesses. They supported my business and you know I've still gotpeople that have worked with me for twenty years because they love whatthey do right, but now people are thrown off. They thoughtthis working from home thing was going to be a piece of cake because it'scomfortable we're in our homes, but it isn't. We don't have the samesetups. We miss the culture, it's hard...

...to communicate it's hard to keeprelationships going, whether you're in sales, and you need relationships withyour clients and you used to go to their offices m. You know customerservice people are struggling because they are not having the same connectionamongst their team. You know they sit around in the office and talk to each other about Ohsomebody's having this problem. How do I solve that now? They've got to gothrough a lot of channels or a lot of slat conversations in order to reallyget those answers for their client. So there's just been a lot of disconnectsthat you know we're trying to gloss over but they're there, and we reallyneed to think about those. We need to think about how we're going tocommunicate with each other in a more mindful way to really it stay human inthe way that we work. Well, that's and it's interesting. You say that when wedecided last March of two thousand and twenty that we had to go home and behome, the woman who runs the day to day theagency she said to me Glen. Would you be able to please do a presentation toour team about how to work at home. You know how, so I did a presentation aboutsetting up a work space and trying to maintain a schedule very similar towhat you had in the office, meaning if you came in to work at eight thirtywell make sure you're at your desk at eight thirty and take time for lunchand end at a certain time, because the the just because you can work all dayor push it off or go back to your desk after work or after dinner, doesn'tmean you should, and it was really hard for some people.But they appreciated that. But one of the things to your point that we reallyhad to remind them- and it sounds strange- we'd- have to remind them todid you take lunch? Did you stop and take lunch? We even tried to havepeople do facetime, lunches at least to have some visual of each other, but I really do think that's a key thatyou were saying about reminding ourselves if we are going to continuedown this road for whatever time for your business, that we have to figureout ways to connect and to communicate. If not we're going to drop into theland of text and that's just not healthy no, and we also really need to knowwhen and how to disconnect, because it's very easy to get an email at teno'clock at night, you're sitting in a living room with the family or watchingTV and all of a sudden you get up and leave and go answer the email right.You should not do that right. It's really not smart, partly because you'renot really fully present. When you get those emails, you know setting it asidea time for work, and this is when I work even if those hours like for me. Itake a break in the middle of the day and I go out to the bar and I ride myhorse and that's what I do to relax and so my clients all know that that's atime that I'm not available, I may work later at night, but it's on purpose.It's on schedule. It's not something that I just let happen so that our work,this whole idea of work life balance has been crape for a long time. Butit's really about making your choices. You know, we've always brought home towork and we've always brought work home right but figuring out how we're goingto break that up. As far as how we work and when we work and making sure thatwe get appropriate breaks right, you know using something like the pomodoromethod, where you work for twenty minutes and then you get up and youwalk around. You get a cup of coffee whatever it is, take a break, let yourmind rest and then go back to work and...

...that's one way to really break a goodday. Well, it's been interesting when I first was at home as well, it was itwas interesting. It was a little easier when my children were home remoteschool as well, because I would stop to go help make lunch and I'd have lunchwith them. So it forced me to take that break and then, after at the end of theday, they would be finished and I would say: Okay we're all I'm done with workand let's Cook Dinner and we'll have dinner, and then maybe I went back foran hour, but they was after they had settled in or whatever. I find itinteresting now, where they're, not here, they're back in physical school,and so I have to stop myself. You know my wife will be here. We we have tostop and have lunch or, if she's off doing something I'll look up andalready it's two thirty and how I didn't stop. So that's where I think this idea of burnout is happening. Is We don't have to commute anymore, so we can just walk incoupleof coffee sit down and just dive in there's no more prepping on the roadin or on the Flip Side D. compressing on your half an hour commute home, soyou're not just walking out of your office or whatever, wherever you'reworking frustrated, because you have no decompression time and you just walkright out and you know you're just carrying that all around. So if someoneis feeling this idea of burning out and hittingthat, so so, if they were saying all right, I have to take charge of thisnow. I'm feeling this give me a few tips. You mentioned one purposely takingbreaks. What other things would you have them do to pull back, so they don't feel likethey're hitting the wall well burn out is a sneaky thing and by the time yourealize you're in Bernat, it's too late M, so checking in with yourselfperiodically through the day- and you know what I what I do is I just stopfor a moment and go. What am I doing right now and is this? What I'm reallyshould be doing right now in this moment? Am I tired? You know we don'tcheck in with ourselves. We just try to power through and the morrow. We try topower through the less skilled we are at whatever it is we're doing, becausewe're not really there and present doing that thing. Soyou know before you start a project. Take a breath. Give yourself a moment.So, okay, I'm going to work on this turn off your email turn off slack turnoff all that stuff for set periods of time and then check them, becausethere's lots of studies about this. But every time you hear your email, chimego off. Even if you don't go read that email! It stops you for five minutesright, but your brain wanders offe. So when we set up our workspace when weset up our work day in a way that you know, okay, I'm going to be presentright here for this I'm going to do this thing, I'm going to make thisphone call silly things like you know. You know you're going to have a salescall in a minute, then get yourself ready for that call. Don't keepanswering your email all of those other things that we do to be busy busy dizzybusy, because busy isn't really helpful to us. We need to think about yeah yeah.I mean we just think. Okay, I'm going to make it called these are. This iswhat I'm going to do. Lay out what you expect- and you know I was just talkingto somebody about really successful negotiation and heard of successfulnegotiation- is being prepared for the conversation. What mind set, are you inwhat mindset are they in? What are both parties going to accept and how can wekind of come to an agreement with that? You can't do that if you're notprepared for the conversation? Yes,...

...that's that's. I love that a gentlemanwho I interviewed a few episodes ago, Garland Vance, wrote a book aboutgetting unbusy right and he was saying how being busy as a badge of honorright now and just working for the sake of work versus saying or I is this,what I should be doing and I like the way you said that you know, are youpresent a hundred percent or are you disconnected somewhere and you maybe a trick? What I do is I blockout time for a project on my calendar to say this next hour, this next halfan hour and treated as if it's a meeting with a very important clientand shut everything else down, so that I can focus, especially if it's acreative process, if I'm writing something or working on a presentation,the distractions it's very easy and to your point being at home, you just ohyou hear something, and then you look out and no, let me go over here andnext thing. You know you're, you know, cleaning the dishes and doing somethingelse, and that's all well and good and it, but that's not a conscious break,it's just a distraction, so it's really really hard to do that. I want to. Iwant to pipit a little bit, because I love the fact that your podcast calledmindful social podcast, but this idea of mindfulness there, I'm sure, there'speople who are listening, who will say yeah. This is all hoke whoha feel good, Cumbia stuff being mindful. What is that going to do forme, but in your words, when you're saying mindfulness, what does that meanfor people? I hear it all the time from peoplethey're like that, mindful of stuff. That sounds really hard. Do I have tomeditate all of these things, and we have so many misconceptions about whatit is and really all it is, is paying attention right now paying attentionI'm here now and talking to you. This is all I'm doing right and when you putit that way, you can start to think how it applies to your tasks. You know, andwhat you just said. is you know so fantastic because we all do that whenwe're working at home we're like? Oh, I need to start the dishwasher before. Istart this project, fifteen twenty minutes later you're back at your deskright and we need to make conscious choices. Do I need to do this now, butdo I need to do now? You know when I write in particular, Ihave to do it at the right time of day. If I try to write in the lateafternoons and not going to be so thrilled about it. I write mostly inthe morning, so I choose the time that I do specific tasks and try to organizearound that. But when we're mindful all we're doingis just being conscious being aware and noticing things you know, as I said youjust check in with yourself periodically through the day. How do Ifeel right now am I stressed, am I hungry? Am I thirsty? Do I need to bedoing something else and is what I'm doing right now, the most importantthing for me to be doing, and if it's you know surfing or whatever? Maybe no,but let me ask you about that because I think this is where just what poppedinto my head, when you were saying that is, I think some people think mindfulness issome mystical hurdle that they have to go through. On the flip side, I'm wondering if it's, if we've all gotten away- or I don'tknow the right word- we've lost the ability to just be quiet because wehave so many distractions. I was thinking as you were talking. You know there are days when I go walkmy dog, where I don't listen to anything. I just let my mind wander andwatch. What's going on and just another days, I'll put something you know put apodcast in or maybe I'm taking a phone...

...call and it's amazing how much youeither miss or feel disconnected with what you're doing meaning you're notpresent. So I wonder if it's because we're trying to be busy and we have thetechnology, so we can always be checking the news, checking the weatherlistening to a podcast where we have to pack our days so that we feel likeevery moment we're doing we're accomplishing something but reality getting rid of a lot of things to bepresent. Actually it's what it sounds like we're talking about here is themore that you can just be present with yourself in the moment. You'll gainmore than constantly trying to multitask andmy right on that sort of asily. You know the thing is is that we have thisbusiness culture and we are trained from pretty young to think that itwe're not busy, then we're not serving a purpose, and that being quiet is a waste of timeright and I'm not going to tell you you have to meditate, but I am going totell you you can meditate in thirty seconds you can meditate while you'redoing a specific task. There's lots of things that we do a lot.A lot of people tell me that they had the biggest break through when theywere watering, the garden right, because they weren't busy like walkingthe dog those times that we have epiphanies in the shower yeah we're notdoing anything, we're allowing our mind to rest and when we allow allow ourmind to rest, the mind will go off and it'll keep busy for you. It'll keepthinking of things, but sometimes, if you're doing something repetitive likethat, like taking a shower your mind, is allowed to be creative.It is right for you to do anything and you're not being busy busy busy busy,no one. I think that's and it's funny. You say that is when I'm cooking it, because it's a simpler task in away or sweeping the garage where you're saying there's a repetitive task, whereyou're you're mulching the beds of your you know,garden or whatever. It is there's some physical thing that keeps your bodymoving, but it allows your brain verses going back and I think it's a reallyimportant point for everyone. Who's listening, I don't want it to beglossed over. Is this idea of we always have to bebusy, and this feeling that, if we're not busy, somehow we're less- and Ithink there's so much on social media of you know, you have to wake up atthree o'clock in the morning or wake up extra earlier stay. You know, workseventeen hours a day and all- and I know some of those contents are notmeant to do that if you want to get up early great butmore poorly. What are you doing with the hours you were up, but I thinkwe're all being hit with this, that we do feel that if we're not having a sidehustle and if we're not working sixteen hours day and if we're not up at fouror five o'clock in the morning and already have being worked out and doneforty seven things by the time we have our glass of orange juice, somehowwe're falling behind or we're not as good as we think we are. So how do webalance that me? How how do people? How would you recommend people deal withall of that onslaught and input of feeling that they're not up to par yeah? You know we have so much judgmentabout ourselves and that's one of the things that we just need to do is checkin on that judgment really do I need to be this busy. Do I need to answer thisphone call now? Are you in control of your life, or are you not Rause, ifyou're busy busy busy busy all the time it? Sometimes people use that as anescape, maybe there's something that they don't want to deal with in theirlife right now? Maybe they don't want...

...to deal with their job. Maybe theydon't want to deal with something in the family, maybe there's an illness orsomething that you know they just don't want to deal with, so they get busy andthen to get exhausted and then they get burned out and then that one thing thatwas really important to them that they're, avoiding it's bigger and bigger right. So it'sreally a cycle that we've created for ourselves. It's like running away whatwe go down and eventually you know, O you camp it down push it down, distractyourself from it. Eventually, it's going to come out, but it's. How do youwant it to come out? Do you want it to come out where it wave washes over youand you feel a certain way or do you want it to blow up out of you whichthen potentially there's a lot of collateral damage around bed I dumpedor exploded on family or work or co workers or friends, and it had nothingto do with the reason why I blew up it's just. I can't hold on to thisanymore yeah and that's such an important point Glen. You know we go off on somebody and we don't even wejust go. I don't know where that came from, but we don't stop and think.Where did that come from right now? What brought that up? And that's myfulness, you know it's wow. I need to think about that alittle bit more, maybe not in the moment. You don't think about thingswhen you're angry very effectively. So just come back later and go wow. Whatwas that about today? This is how we grow is by thinking about where thingscome from and how they could have been better or figuring out what the source is andthen dealing with the source rather than just letting it lay there, becauseyou'll go off again for something else right, so that that that's a perfect, Ithink we're in a good place to pivot. There's a topic that intrigued me whenI was doing some research about you and you talked about being less reactiveand stressful situations. Now, so what we were just talking about, it's almosta reverse, where it's not really a stressful situation, but something justtriggers us because we've tamped it down, but let's flip the then will letslip it around now and talk about you know, leaders. The point of the show isto help people who are in charge, and so here's someone who's taking chargeexperienced or new and they're in a stressful situation. Things may or maynot be going the way they want them to go, and you know maybe their impulse isto just jump in and figure things out when you say be less reactive instressful situations. What do you mean when I say be less reactive? It's moreabout noticing before you react, you know, and part of mindfulness trainingteaches us to feel emotions on our body, and this can be very difficult forpeople, but I know that when I'm about to get reactive, I start to feel alittle bit in my chest. That gets a little tight. I might feel that youknow my blood pressure is going up. I might notice that my fist or clincheslike this and I'm stressed now. I should do something you know when youfind yourself in that position, and you recognize that you're doing that youcan relax your hands. You can take an action to reduce that stress before ithappens, but you won't notice it unless you're, mindful right so checking in all the time. I mean it's one of thethings that it's hard for people to do it first and then later they getpractice and they're like wow. I do it all day I'll get ready for a phone callI'll check in with myself. So I know I'm in the right place. I will know I'mgoing to have a difficult conversation and I will set myself up to have a goodconversation, all kinds of things you can do with positive neales sons likeI'm preparing. I know what happens to...

...someone where all of a sudden stressful situations coming out fromnowhere. So there's two point: two parts o thisone is all of a sudden. How I react to this that came out of nowhere preparingfor a stressful phone call. I get that this comes out, so that's number oneand then the second point is really. It sounds like what you'resaying the mindfulness training is once I get through that reaction. I need totake time to look back at how I handled it and what caused it. Some people maysee that as weakness or you know right right, no, I so when you so so those situations thatare out of your control, meaning I'm walking into something and there'schaos going on, and I have to figure out how to go. Handle this. How do younot be reactive in that moment? So there's two stories here. The firstone is is how he trained for these situations is by looking back atprevious situations and going Oh. That was what triggered me. Oh, I was upsetabout this and I did that. Okay, so that's part of mindfulness is to trainin advance before you walk into a room of twenty people and they're all goingat it and you're the leader, you came in with a nice happy. You know: HeyEverybody, Oh okay, like what the Hell is going onhere, exactly one of the most impactful things you could do when you walk intoa room and there's like twenty people and they're going at it is just tostand still for a minute. Give yourself a breath and wait has everybody's going to belike what is she doing? Oh, oh, I was being reactive and, ifyou've trained your team, how to recognize when they're being reactive,but silence is an incredibly powerful thing to stop people because theysuddenly realize all the bosses here and I'm going off. Oh right, I see Ilike that. I like that one it's you can watch what's going on to observe, toget your bearings as you said that one minute two minutes of silence isyour preparation before you respond, because you really don't know what'sgoing on, but actually I like that it's it's a training or a conversation.Remember a workshop. I went into when someone's raising their voice. Youlower your voice because eventually they get Kawaii yelling at this person,who's WHO's, not they're, expecting you to counter with higher encounter withhire and we're keep going up versus you go down and all of a sudden they feelembarrassed o. Why am I yelling at this person who's just being incredibly calm?So I really like that. It's a really phenomenal tip for all of you leadersout there if you're walking into a situation where it seems out of control,if you're in customer service in the salesperson and a customer or sort ofin a ten situation, don't go in there and try to calm them down, going, hey,hey, hey, yea, hey, just stop and watch and all of a sudden it will slowlydiffuse a little bit. Then you have your opportunity to go in and startasking questions in order to find out what's going on sothen you can figure out what what your tactical strategy should be to help resolve the this sort of chaos in frontof you exactly, and you know I exactly what you said. If you go in- and youknow, they're going at it, you're like eye okay, you're being reactive now toright, is not going to call anybody down right, so you know figuring out, and it's that's why you know what Iteach is called micro, dost mindfulness, because these are all tiny littlethings that you can train your mind to go into that run and go okay. I'm goingto take thirty seconds to kind of let everybody settle down and get a feelfor what's going on here and then I'll be in a better position to calmly askthe questions that need to be asked.

It's almost shifting the power dynamic.You know if you've seen it where you know a teacher walks into a classroomand the kids are all bubbling around and doing things if they, if they startgoing all right all right. All right. You've raised the tension, but if theyjust start staring at them and not say a word eventually, everyone goes who o.Why am I the one I'm standing out and I shouldn't stand out and then you moveit along? So I think that's a really. That's probably one of the that's tipsthat I've heard in a long time for especially new leaders, they tend tofeel that I have to exert my power as a leader. My I come in with I always hadcome in brandishing my title like a sword like you should listen to me, I'mthe manager and that just drives more versus the reason. Let your power comefrom silence where everyone, the real power, your real power and then they'llturn around and look at you to say all right. I need your help now to figureit out. They may turn around and then start explaining. What's going on toyou and same thing, just be quiet and listen and let everyone talk and thenyou can start in, but you've allowed your power just by your presence andyour silence again, you're you're being present- and I think that keeps goingback to what you said earlier. Mindfulness is really being present.Where your feet are. That's what I always say am I present where my feetare and if you are, then you can really watch. You canreally listen. You can really respond and help move a situation forward, yeah,yeah and- and I mean I want to make it very, very clear- these things don'thappen immediately. It's something that you have to practice. You know, and so,like I said before, if a situation goes wrong, you know don't judge yourselffor it right back, give yourself some space and then go okay. What could Ihave done differently and don't make it about? Oh, I can'tbelieve I did that. Okay, it's over it's water under the bridge, get getover yourself right, go back and go okay. How can I handle this differently?It's about training and it has to start somewhere and you're, not going to bemindful the first or the third or the twenty third time perfectly, but it's apractice. Well, I like that. I like your idea of the micro dose where we'retaking baby steps of. I was. I felt good for this minute, this thirtyseconds. It's to your point is it's a practice and it's a skill and some daysyou're going to do well, but the best leaders and the best the people whoperform very well do take time to go back and look at a situation notjudgmental, but to go. Look at their actions to say what work, what didn'twork? What do I have to tweak and then be keep going using the word mind willbe mindful that the next time we're going to start with a differentstrategy, because we learn something if we constantly or just make the samemistake over and over and over again. Well, then we're not learning anythingwhere we're fighting. What really? I wonder if, then, you end up fightingwhat you, what you're starting to learn and there's an internal battle betweenwell, no, this really work, howl be quiet. This is I'm smarter than you andyou have this internal fight going on. Okay, I am curious. I want to pivot nowand talk a little bit about you, because this mindfulness we, where youare today, as you said, not where you were you know twenty years ago, twenty fiveyears ago, you were Silicon Valley, running an agency, digital agency, asyou said, got funding. We have people, things are going well...

...and then you know the crash aside,which was you know, always can be a very similar to Ovid and this timeframe it pushes things or accelerates things. So my question to you is: Where didwhere did this come from you right? Where we are today, and do you think that if the crashdidn't push you remote, were you heading to that way anyway? So I loveto understand how we got to this point, because it's fascinating from runningagency work, and we have all this to no here we're in a completely differentdirection. Well, the agency did transform quite afew times. You know we started as an online community for people working inthe restaurant industry that evolved to a Web Development Company andeventually that evolved into social media management and strategy, and itwas really in the social media management and strategy part that wereally made a big pivot, because at that point I was working with quite afew individuals who were running their own businesses. They were allcontractors, they were all working from home and we were really successful andit was really where we were at the height of our success, because socialmedia was taking off like mad and everybody wanted it and nobody knew howto do it. But over time I started to realize that my my real core love iscommunity. It's dealing with the people and it was always about humanity andpeople working together and over time. Social Media got more into a marketingtool, morn into kind of that old, Madman's style of pushing stuff downpeople's throats because they needed it sure- and I got pretty disconnected from that. That's not theway I wanted to do business and I changed a lot of clients. But I wasstill finding clients that that was the only way they wanted to work and I justwas not fulfilled and at the same time some one of my family got sick and Ibecame a caregiver and I started to really check in with my priorities, andI was really burned out because I was running the agency and I was being acaregiver and all of these other things in crazy silicon valley, and I startedexploring Mifune S as a way to take care of myself and the more I learnedabout it. The more excited I got because I found that it could handle mystress and little by little. I started doing what I call you know: Mind FocusTraining if you don't like the word mindfulness and really learning how tofocus on what was important and it wasn't social media anymore right. Itwasn't working with the clients that I was working with any more so I shutdown the agency and I opened a consultant and coaching business, andnow I do corporate training and retreats and workshops and all kinds ofthings that just really transform people. How come be better in how theydeal with life and with work, and that has changed my entire life in such a goodway? I'm so much calmer these days than I was that well, I think- and I want to keepdiving into this because what's interesting is sometimes we always we make changes because we have to meaningthat life is pushing us to that. So you have a successful business but the caretaking in the burn out and all of a sudden. So how did you find themindfulness? Was it? You know what was the actual thing thatgot you down the road? Was it a workshop? Was it a video? Was it a book?How did you all of a sudden go from you know, even though you sensed it? Iliked h community, but we went to the...

...advertising and ads ads ads ads tillwe're. You know blue in the face here at what was the what was the triggerpoint to get to the mindfulness desperation. Now, quite honestly, you get to a pointwhen you're so burned out that you turn to everything, and I turned to a lot ofthings that weren't good for me before I got there and then I really kind of on a whim did a three dayretreat and which was amazing, because I realized that gosh I t to take threedays and take care of myself and focus on what I need, and that is somethingthat I didn't think I would do. I thought itwas woo and silly, and why am I doing this, but I need the time so I certainly did not have the mindsetthat I have now I was very like. Oh I don't know, this is just going to becrazy, but three days in the mountains. Okay, I can do this right well, wereyou looking at it more as a vacation break than it was?This is going to transform me, or was that a surprise when you came out of it?It was a total surprise. I really didn't expect it. I thought you know,I'm just going to go and I'm going to chill and it's going to be good, and Ijust really need a break right now. I have to have a break and then once Ikind of recognize that almost everybody that was at that retreat and it was nota retreat for people who were in stress, but almost everybody at that retreatwas in really extreme stress and they were there for the same reasons. I wasright so we got to talking- and I realized that you know some of themwere Silicon Valley, executive. Some of themhad families that were in challenge. There were a lot of different things,but what brought people together was. I just need something to make me feelbetter to make me feel whole. So then, I started studying mindfulness in a lotof different ways and compassion and positive neuropathic, ty and positivepsychology and cognitive behavioral therapy a studd a lot of stuff over thelast few years, and it really has made everything better for me and it's madethings better for my clients as well, and it just feels really good. I feel,like I found my l, my next calling my next career right. What well what Ilike about that and I'd love your opinion on this, because I think I don't want to sayjust high achievers, but I think it's most people who are just trying to getthrough the day we talked about it earlier being busy taking real time foryourself is seen as selfish or weeks, not the right word, but I thinkwe we feel that if I take time I'll speak for myself, you know taking timefor myself. My wife is always on me just go. You need your time and I hadmy time where I go, but for a long time I didn't, because I kept saying well mesitting down for an hour and just reading a book for myself which I enjoy.I could be doing x right. You have that model of constantly why I could bedoing this or I should be doing more for the family or I could be doing morefor the company or I could and you go to well, I could go work. How do what would you, I can't say, advice because again,someone's going to say? Oh, it sounds all good and easy, but what is that? What's that power? Why isit so important that we do take stock and we just sort of find what we liketo do and do it like? What's that real benefit? Well, let me take that from a littledifferent tack, something that I did and something that I know a lot ofpeople have done is when they get...

...burned out and they get stressed.They're like okay, I'm going to go dancing, I'm going to go to a bar, I'mgoing to get drunk, I'm going to come home and everything's going to bebetter in the morning. No one feels better in the morning: No, no, not work,and so they actually make things worse, because now they've accelerated theburn out and they made themselves feel bad, and I think we've all done that insome capacity and when we do something like you know, wetake a day and we go for a walk in the woods. We always feel better right,even if it's taking us away from work taking that break just for ourselvesfeels better, it's reactive. We need to develop ahabit of taking those breaks. Whenever we decide we need to take them, notevery Saturday, I'm going to go for a walk in the woods, because there'sgoing to be all kinds of stress around that there's going to be all kinds ofreasons that you can't do o it. But if you do make yourself, do it you'regoing to feel better and then once we start to feel better, we start to wantmore of that. It's not until we take that small step like I did to go. Okay,I got to do something about this and it can be an hour. It can bereading a book. You know it isn't watching Netflix for eight hours right,that's really a mal adapt of behavior. We need to find a way to be withourselves and create that habit. Yeah, my wife was doing during covie. She wasdoing paint by numbers and she said this was. That was her time. Somethingagain like you were saying. We were saying earlier repetitive action thatoccupied a portion of the brain, so the other portion of the brain could go offand just think things, and I think that's just listening to that. What Iloved about it was it's finding something doing it for yourself. Sometimes you know, I don't want to sayforce yourself, but you know if the choice is well, I could go work or gowalk, go walk, but it it be careful that it is in becoming such aritualised test that you lose the joy of actually doing that. Now it's I'mgoing to walk for an hour, but then your purpose is. I can't wait to getdone with this walk because then I checked it off the box, and now I'mgoing to go back and I'm going to go, work you've lost that ability, becauseyou're no longer present you're counting down the minutes to be done soyou're not doing it, but I think from what you're saying and what it soundslike again. It's just this ongoing building of presents listening toyourself, appreciating that silence and time for yourself is as valuable ofwhat, because it charges you up, and it allows you to be be more present for all of yourother things that you have on your list, because you've recharged, the batteryyour battery in a real way, not forced them going to the beachtoday and everything's done now. I can go for you know it's. I think we needmore of this and, as you say, that's why I love that were micro. Gos Is, Ithink we need. We need a hundred micro doses over the course oftime every day versus one power pack day of vacation, because to your point,then, we feel like that solves all of our problems. Yeah well and who, whowho hasn't gone on vacation and like the five days leading up to thevacation, are packed with work in to get to vacation and you chill outexcept the last couple of days when you're like okay, I'm going to get backto work, and I get this done, and this done and this to an you, get back towork and you're hammered again and it has not relaxed you because you'restill exhausted. So when we take little breaks, they're actually more impactful,you know in our house we take overnights or we'll take a couple ofdays just whenever right, an a little fried. Let's go somewhere, look rightat a hotel room, stay there and just...

...relax, and it's just one day, but it'samazing how powerful that can be. If we allow ourselves to do it and you a justten minutes, walk around the block there. I have a neighbor and I've. Youknow: We've grown close over the you know, ten years or so we're here andhe's always worked at home. He and his wife both work home, but I see themwalking together or by themselves at least two or three times a day, and hesays that's the way. I do my thinking that's the way, but that he has thosemicro moments for himself and he is the most level headed calm, I'm sure hegets upset. But when you talk to him he's very grounded very center becausehe has this ritual of refueling himselves or be you know, treating itthat time for himself so that he can be present for everything else, and I likethat. I think we all do wait for the big vacation and usually, if you let's say you're gonefor a week. It takes you three days till you finally are relaxing and nowyou're on your fourth day, and you feel Oh, my God. I finally feel really goodand then you're going O. I ave to be left, and now I try to jam it all inand I'm more exhausted when I come back and that I'm sure you've heard ofpeople go, I need a vacation for my vacation because of all this. So I wantto ask you, as we're sort of moving into the tail end of this. Your latest book now you've writtenseven books, which is amazing. I love the title when life hits the Fan sotalk to me about how that book came to be and what youhope people will get out of it when they read the book. It's really a very personal journey ofwhat it was like for me becoming a caregiver finding myself burned out,trying to do too much and discovering mindfulness, and I interviewed a wholebunch of people for the book to understand what they were strugglingwith too. And then I I give tips on how to bring mindfulness into your life todeal with that reactivity to deal with the triggers to deal with theexhaustion. All of the things that happened to us in our lives that youknow just to help caregivers take care of themselves because they often don'tcare for themselves right if they get so wrapped up in the job and caring forthe person. They love and that's understandable. But it's not reallyhelpful, because sometimes you get really obsessive about it and thenyou're not helping that person. You know if you're fried you're, nothelping anybody, so I out, I think, that's that again folks, Ihope you're. Listen to that, because again, it's easy sometimes when we getgoing to skip over, but if you're feeling, if your battery is drained,how are you going to be pre that that I think goes back to what we were talkingabout when you become reactive- and you know stressed in situations- and youknow people always say you're so tired, you just snap, because you don't havethe mental capacity nor the energy to be thoughtful to be mindful because youjust you're so tired and your emotions are so on edge. Anything is going totrigger you off. So I think that idea of it's not selfish to take care ofyourself. First, hate t that don't mean it in like Oh retop of someone, but Ithink you have to be consciously thinking that taking care of myself isjust as important, if not more important, because how else can I befully present for all those who depend on me if I'm fried out absolutely true,because we all know that if we go into a situation, that's going to be reallychaotic and very hard and we're already fried when we get there, we're notgoing to be helpful, there's going to be a mess, and the thing is is that inmy next book is called Micro Dose, O Mindfulness, and that book is reallyabout. How can we take a little...

...microdots here and a microdots there tosettle our minds to allow that sense of calm to be there, because that gives usthat little break in the storm, then we can do so much more if we can justlearn just take that moment, and I that moment tobe yeah, it's that slowing down. I think it's that idea and I like that.It's slowing down to be present without neat constantly needing stimulation from outside. I remember when I wouldcommute back and forth to the office. You know it's about forty five. Fiftyminutes each way on their on days, where it was just I'm a boy. I used alot of energy today I would drive home with no radio, no podcast, nothing justquiet to allow it to unwind, because if I'd kept adding more in like let'slisten to a business book or a podcast or even just radio or music, I was Iwas getting more tired by that time. I came home and I found when I walked in definitely didn't want to be aroundanybody, or I wasn't really pleasant to be around or I'd just be really quiet.Now, what's going what's wrong with that versus taking that time foryourself, when you need it, and- and we all know it- that's the fascinatingthing- we all know it, but it's the guilt of taking the time for ourselves.I think that's the biggest struggle that we all have to sort of get over ourselves on that andlisten to ourselves and treat the voice inside her head. What says you need therest and rest yep and and to really allowyourself that time to focus- and you know a lot of US- aren't commuting, butwe're still going back and forth a lot, and you know when you think about it:You're coming home after a really long hard day. Are you going to bring thatall home to the family or not, but if you're not going to bring one of theone of the tricks that somebody taught me a while ago is when you get home, sit in the car for amoment. Take a couple of breaths and look at Your House and be grateful that you have the house,your family. Is there they're waiting for you? They probably aren't waitingfor you, but they could be right. You know just give yourself a moment to begrateful, I'm home and just allow that doesn't have to bemore than a few seconds, but that just your attitude. It shifts your way ofbeing before you walk in the door so that you don't bring all of thataggravation that you picked up at work home with you right either and bepresent with the family be in your home and allow yourself that moment ofhappiness. I think that's great. There was a gentleman who I, Inter viewedhe's a good friend of mine. His name is Glen Lundy and his one of his wholepurposes is helping people start their day, as he said. If you could startyour day in a better way, then you'll have a better day and so he's writtensomething called the morning. Five and one of those is, you know no, no phoneright, you know no, don't hit the snooze, but no no phone light. So youdon't start with stimulus, good or bad, doesn't matter and hit one of histenants. His gratitude, you know, take five minutes to just say what am Igrateful for and it could change every single day, but once you come out of itours, he says. If you start your day, grateful grateful. You woke up gratefulfor your health. Grateful I have a roof over my head, grateful for my forwhatever it is once you start, realizing all the things you have then,if something's going on, you can deal with it because for a lot of us, as wemove through the world, there's a lot of what we don't have going back tothat that you're not busy enough you're,...

...not working hard enough. Your you're,not as successful as this we get into what we don't have and if we stopped for a moment, as yousaid, I love that pulling up in your driveway and looking at your house andsaying I have a house, I have a roof over my head. I have people in therewho love me, there's food in the refrigerator. You know that thoselittle things I always say some people would love to trade placeswith you and have the problems that you're complaining about you know. Sowhen you think it's that bad there's people who would trade placeswith you in two seconds, so listen, I could chat with you. I Ilove these conversations that fly because I really think we really. Ireally like what we talked about today. I think it'll be very, very helpful forour guests, who are listening in on this. So I want to thank you so muchfor your time today will link up all your books and we'll talk about wherethey can find you in a moment. But we end our show all the time just chattingabout what I call the five questions. Call him the one meaning one answerjust tell me: What pops into your head right out of the shoot, so you're ready, you're ready for thoseyou are gone for it all right, I'll, TRY TO GET PRESENT! First, okay, let'swe'll both get present okay. So what is one skill that people would notknow that you possess? I hate this question. I used to be a butcher like look at that see. That's awesome!I like that one so we'll stay with then butcher food,one type of food that you can't live without you're, not willing to give upwhat is it steak there you go butch our steak,we're gone where we have a theme here, we're going on oven on a like that, I'm afraid to ask his actual. What'sone place in the world that you haven't been to that you love to travel to Morocco, that's a good one. What is something that you are readingright now or you listening to or watched that is inspiring you ortouched you that you would recommend to the audience. I just started JaneGodall's new book and it's all about hope in really difficult times, andit's just amazing sorry one answer hope no! No! No! No Tobut listen. We can. We can do that's good if I got all of your friends and familyin a room and ask them to describe you with one word. What's the one word theywould use honest. I like that and then our last question before we wrap up andask where you they can contact you. There was one thing out of all of thisconversation that we had today and we talked about a lot of things. What'sthe one thing that you hope the audience walked away with, take a microdots, a mindfulness one minute love it love it love, it love it, and this has been fascinating and I'mreally glad we connected, and you took time to be here with me. I reallyappreciate that. So how can the audience connect with you and find you,as I said, well list your book in the show notes, but where, if they wantedto reach out and find more about you and what you do, where would they go anywhere on social media, I'm J fouts,which is a lot of places or just go to my website, Janet Folto, great lovethat love that so again, thank you. So much for being here, I do appreciate itso audience. You know the drill. Please make sure that you subscribe to thepodcast apple or a few are android users over there on spotify or whereveryou O, listen to your podcast. You can...

...jump over to the Youtube Channel, soyou can watch both of us. Have this conversation as well. Please share itout, there's a lot of people who could use and and really need to hear what wetalked about today. Please make sure that you rape, the podcast comment, I'dlove to hear what you feel about this, and I appreciate that you spend timewith us today. It means a lot. I know there's a lot of places for you toconsume content and, as I say at the end of every show, you're in charge. Magana gave you a few more things tools:strategies to help. You become more successful, both personally andprofessionally. Thanks again so much, and I look forward to seeing you on thenext episode thanks again for being part of this today. Thank you. Glen waswonderful. Thank O T.

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