"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch
"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch

Episode 133 · 7 months ago

Making Your Point Clear with Joel Schwartzberg


We all have been in meetings or presentations where we are more confused when we leave then when we arrived. We wonder, "What was the point? How does this apply to me?" Frustration for both speaker and audience. 

In this episode, communication expert Joel Schwartzberg shares his tips and strategies on how to make your point clear and concise, so your audience feels the impact. He shares his experience of helping business leaders create more effective communication strategies and common mistakes we all make. 

This is an important episode to learn better leadership language for work but also in our day to day lives.  

Enjoy and don't forget to rate, share and subscribe Thanks  

About Joel 

Joel Schwartzberg is the Senior Director of Strategic and Executive Communications for the ASPCA in New York City and also teaches communication and presentation skills to clients including American Express, State Farm Insurance, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Comedy Central, and the Brennan Center for Justice. 

Joel’s books include “The Language of Leadership” and “Get to the Point!” and his articles appear in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, CNBC, and Toastmaster Magazine. A frequent conference presenter and workshop leader, Joel is also a former national champion public speaker and collegiate speech coach. 

Connect with Joel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelschwartzberg/

His Books: https://www.joelschwartzberg.net/books 

About Glenn Pasch: "Everyone finds themselves in charge at some point in their lives. Yet many of us lack the skills to generate consistent results. My goal is to help you learn the skills to adapt and grow in your personal and business life.”  

Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, a full service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses create and deliver customers raving, recommending & returning for more. 

He is author of 2 books including "The Power of Connected Marketing" and has spoken and educated audiences throughout the US and internationally.     

Let’s Connect:   

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennpasch/​

Personal Website http://glennpasch.com/

​Company website: https://pcgdigital.com/

Support for this episode comes from PCG digital. As a business owner, you want to surround yourself with people who can help you achieve your goals when it comes to digital marketing. That's what PCG digital does best. If you want a true partner helping connect your message to more customers than you need to reach out to PCG digital. Maximize your marketing dollars with PCG digital. Go to PCG digitalcom for more information, and don't forget to mention D you're in charge podcast. We've all been in presentations or delivered presentations where the audience doesn't seem to really connect with the point of what the speakers trying to communicate. We feel that it was a waste of time or it just didn't seem to connect with us. We didn't understand why we were there. We walked out of there, maybe even saying the speaker was great, that was a lot of fun, but it didn't have an impact. So if you're in that position, you're trying to communicate something to your team, ask yourself the question, well, what's the point? And today's guest, Joel Schwartzberg, has written two books, one called the language of leadership and another called get to the point, and what he's sharing today is how to craft your presentations, how to craft your communications with the right focus, the right point, so that then you can reverse engineer your back how to put the examples and the vehicles of choice to communicate your point. But without that point you're not really going to inspire your team to move forward. So Joel has some great tactical tips. It was a great conversation. It inspired me as well, so I can't wait. So let's dive into today's episode of you're in charge now what with author and presentation expert Joel Schwartzburg. Okay, Joel, so up. I'm really excited to talk to you because when I was doing my research, I love the two titles of your books. You know language of leadership and get to the point, and so for a lot of the audience, communication skills seem to be this nebulous thing. A lot of people believe either you're a good communicator or you're not. It's not something you can learn. So when someone says that to you, can you really learn better communication skills? What's your response? My response is simple. Presentation skills, as by definition, are skills and not talents. Nobody, nobody is born a professional presenter or an effective presenter. So whether you are a leader or an aspiring leader, the first thing you should know is that you can develop those skills no matter where you are on the spectrum. In fact, I've coached some coordinators, even some interns, so that they present very effectively. And I've seen CEOS who have a lot of experience even giving keynotes, giving speeches and they ramble and there's epic fail because they don't realize some of the key things. And it's not about, you know, with the shirt you choose to wear or how white your teeth are or what your title is. It all comes down to one big idea, which you were getting at with the books, which is what is the point you're trying to make and are you making it effectively? And that's the bull game. But too few people realize that. And so that's the skill and the key to moving from the presenter that you think you are to the presenter that you most want to be. So so on that, then getting to the point. You know, I had a...

...boss of one time who used to always say when we were debating decisions or thinking about things, he said, what's point B, meaning we have to get to a destination for us to make that decision. So when you say there's someone giving a keynote or presentation or even just running a meeting right now, is it as simple as what you're saying? What? What? What's the point of this meeting? And that needs to be documented. Yeah, it needs to be understood not only by the person leading a meeting or speaking, but also the people who are supporting that speaker. And when it comes to understanding what it means to have a point, the best starting point is knowing what's not a point, what people confuse points with, and these include themes, topics, categories, catch phrases. For example, if I was talking to you, Glenn, and I asked for your point, you said, well, I'm going to talk today about podcasting, you would not be sharing with me your point because you're not saying what is the intelligence or the proposition you're trying to make. Even if you said, all right, the value of podcasting or the evolution of podcasting, you're not telling me the thing you want me to extract. You're giving me another theme, another session title. You're not telling me. Or let's say someone generically who works on podcast for corporation. They're not making a point until they say something like I believe that podcasting is the best avenue through which we're going to reach our millennial audience. Now, whether that's true or not, it's sort of makes you stand up and say, oh, go on, I'd like to hear more about that. Give me evidence, give me storytelling, give me rationality, give me data that supports that proposition. So it's not just you sharing a general idea. Even if it's leadership or entrepreneurship or podcasting or social media. None of these are points. They're all themes, right topics, and you do you need to understand. In case, you're leaving it up to the audience to try to figure out where we're going with this instead of you beating this down the path of to you, and I like your example, I believe podcasting is the best way that we're going to reach our millennial audience. That's pretty clear. We understand that and then we can, as you said, debate it, support it, discussed versus. You could even say what's the best way to reach our audience of millennials? That's still a little bit broader, but then you would probably break it down and say, what do you think? Our Best Way is knowing our company. We have are, we have video, we have podcasting, we have this. What do you think? That's at least getting down to something. You're painting the picture more clearly in their head to see where we're going. Yeah, and they're good metaphors for this. One of them is an agenda. We know that every meeting has an agenda, or should, should, but the agenda are not the points of that meeting unless someone really knows what they're doing, their topics, that you're going to hit a checklist one at a time. So what I always said to people who are leading meetings or executives who are attending meetings, come with your points. What do you want to propose? What do you think this particular audience wants and needs to know and going? You were talking earlier about mistakes that some leaders make when they do their communications. One of the biggest ones and the ones that I like to one of the ones I like to focus on, is a mistake that's made at the very beginning, and it's this the leader thinks, all right, what do I want to say? What do I need to say? What am I thinking about today that I want to share. Right this is the wrong question because that leader can do that in a bathroom, in a tunnel. Is assumes there's no audience. It's just your brain and what's coming out of your mouth. But...

...at the end of the day you'll be judged not by what you say, by what is received. It's like, you know, a picture. A picture is not throwing the baseball into a space, it's starting up to the catcher. They need to understand what the catcher needs. So, moving away from the metaphors, what a communicator and a leader wants to understand is what does my audience want and need to know? Once you identify that, then you work backwards, and I want to specify the audience and the team wanting to know something, and something they're already aware of, that they need more elaboration on what they need to know. It's something they may not be aware of that you need to enlighten them so they can get on board to reaching a goal together. So I like that. So what you're doing, as you said, it's getting out of the self serving of what do I want to say? It's what does my team need to move or word goes back to what we were talking about. Why are we even having this meeting? What are we trying to accomplish so that people can leave here with action items, of viewpoint or tasks in order to move forward? And then that's going back to being perceptive enough to know what the question that needs to be asked, that we need to debate, discuss, review, that's going to unlock more success. Right, because you know, the subtitle of the language of leadership is how to engage and inspire a team, not how to make them listen to you, not how to even get their attention. That we talked about that a little bit. But what's the ultimate goal? Not that they are present for your communication, but that there's impact, and we throw that word around, impact like it's the same thing to everybody. Here's how I define impact. Impact is if you nail it your communication, if you do it effectively, that audience, that team, those employees, they will think a new or take a new action as a result of the conveyance of that point. So that's what leaders need to identify and they want to engage and inspire their team so that we can all work together and service of a goal, not just have them in fact be entertained, and I talked about this a lot. Some people think, well, the best public speakers they're funny, they're charismatic, maybe they're attractive. I remember them. But if you remember a leader for being interesting and knowledgeable and funny and charismatic, but that they were trying to make a point to you that will help you be more productive, that is a fail because you're not looking for that audience to get you more public speaking gigs. You're looking for that team to be part of the process by which the company or the organization advances. So that's what leaders need to think about. What point do I want to make that matches what they want and need to know? Well, I think, to your point, the ones that we remember, even if we were entertained. At least for me, the ones that are memorable are the ones that have led me down to your point, led me down and a finish their point, the right story resolved into a point, a view, something for us to think about it, even if we weren't actively having that conversation one on one because we're in a key note hole, let's see, or a presenter, but it made me start that thought process of well, what do I think about this or how could I use that or how can I take that away, so that, even without that speaker knowing it, I am unlocking something. I am engaged, I am inspired to carry on the conversation because it was very clear what their point of view was about the topic and it was very clear now how they got you down the path. Could be entertaining, but still, that is the vehicle through which your point out way. Even storytelling...

...is not about the story. Ideally, it's the vehicles through which your point travels. And ultimately you don't want that audience to be interested or to find interest in what you're saying. You want that audience to find relevance. Yeah, you're saying, how is this relevant to me? How is this going to support my ability to do my job or unlock professional opportunity for me? These are the things that I'm interested in. I'd love to hear this from my leader. No, and and and what this conversation also triggers is being in meetings, being with leaders, being at presentations where it didn't connect and what you thought was, this speaker doesn't understand me or our audience. I remember at a conference that we hosted, we brought someone in and they were speaking and had it sounded great, good ideas. The problem was it wasn't connecting to the audience because his point was not about what this topic could be for the audience. He didn't connect it to them, and so everyone went and said, oh, that was fun and it went in one ear and out the other, or else a book report right, or that was a waste of time. I didn't like that because, to your to you, to your point, it isn't connected. They didn't think about what the audience wanted. They came in to say, look, how great a speaker I am right and and so, yeah, I think for the audience, I think this is a great little piece of homework for yourself. Les, take a piece of paper and just think of three or four people that you've either been led by or you saw or you were in meetings with, and you said, wow, they connected. I remember what. What did they do? Why do you remember them? And on the flip side, then take a take a list and say here are people that I don't didn't really like or I thought it was a waste of time. Why what did they do or didn't do? So this way you start building up these skills or, to your point, earlier, actions to remind yourself. If I want to connect with my audience, I need to do x, Y and Z, to be prepared. And in fact, when someone practices, whether there are a leader or not, and everybody does or should, you don't want to say to the person you know, give your presentation, how did I do? They're going to be like you did great, all right, thank you. That's useless. Right, right, but here's the question you want to ask, which matches what we were talking about. Give your presentation and say what point do you think I was trying to get across or what takeaway did you receive? Sometimes you can be helpful and say, well, I really wanted people to leave with this one point or this one takeaway. Did that come through? Right? The answer to that question is the bual game. That's everything. What will the audience take away? And I think this is what this is great. I know we're talking about presentations and people, but everyone communicates. You know, parents are communicating with their children, children are communicating with their parents and or you're in school, you're a teacher WHO's constantly presenting. So I think all of these skills, these relevant skills of what is the point of this conversation? Why am I having this conversation? More importantly, what do I want the audience to get out of it? And I love that question because I agree. I'm guilty of that when I'll run a presentation or I'll run something by my team to say, okay, here's what we're going to talk about. What do you think? And they'll say yeah, that sounds great. Versus No, this is the point I want people to leave with. Right, is this clear enough? Right, boy, you're going to get a different answer. You're either going to go, oh, yeah, that's crystal clear, or Oh, that's what you wanted to talk right. And then you have to go and then you found about conversation and then you're given help. It's not just it's didn't, didn't, I didn't buy it. You know, what can you do with that? But if someone says that point wasn't clear, you need to go back. Yeah, you know, the point isn't like the end of a movie. Do you want to spoil it? You want to bring it out early,...

...you want to bring it on the middle, you want to bring it out the end. No one says after a presentation by you, Glenn. You know, Glenn was terrific, but you know what, he made his point too many times. That's because it's the whole idea and they're in. That was the whole thing. They they used to take tell him what they're going to tell them about right right now you, and then tell you what you told them. And it and and, in a way it is that repetition that locks it in. You may position it from the different side, but what what's wonderful about this, and it's just getting even my mind racing a bit, it is that clarity of what is the point. Sometimes we try to do too many things, we throw too many things. I was watching a cooking show with my son the other day and one of the comments from the professional chef to the amateur chef was edit, edit, edit. You know, you have too many things going on here. More is not always better. Better is better. And to your point is I'd rather get one point across clearly than try to overwhelm everyone and they're going, what the hell is that about? Yeah, often I'll say if you share many things, your audience to remember none. If you share some things, they remember some. If you share one thing, they will remember all. So I think about when you've received or been the audience and experienced presentations, if you didn't take copious notes, what do you remember? One, two, three things, and by three I mean really want. So you want to make sure, as the leader, as the presenter, you know what that one thing is that you want them to take away so you can put enough mustard on it so that they receive it successfully. So I and to that point, I want everyone to remember what Jeel just said here is that idea of taking copious notes. I've seen it when I've presented or I run conferences and I see it and I did a podcast episode about that, basically saying what did you really learn, because a lot of people get excited and they say I took twenty pages of notes and I have a notebook full from this con for it's the odds are your. You may remember one thing. Most most people are going to put that book down and come back, go back to work and get working and find it six months later and say or they just lock on the one thing and they want to change things. And so you know, I've always said whatever you're doing, great, take your notes, put them away for a day or two. Go back and read them and what's the one, maybe two things that stood out? That stand out from you, and it's usually going to become come from to your point presenter, who was crystal clear on the point. That's why you remember it, that's why it stands out versus I don't know, there's twenty pages of notes from this one session. I don't even know what they were talking about right, but I know they started with this joke and that was pretty good. Yeah, yeah, I like which is useless, you know. Yeah, so let's pivot a little bit. So for you, I love asking my guests about how they got to this point, their journey, because a lot of times when people are listening to people who like yourself, who are successful, you know, you've written books, and there's people who are sitting here going I could never do that or that's not me. So tell me about how you ended up doing this. Was this something that, if you look back at the ten grade Joel or in high school, is of you always been someone who communicated wells is something that you learned over time or fell into? How did you end up where you are today? was proof that it's in fact a skill and not a talent. I started my journey in sixth grade. I was fortunate enough to not have much athletic ability, so as forced to look at other ways to fill my time, and I was really lucky, frankly, when I was going down to Texas there was a speech and debate team at the sixth grade level and we would go to tournaments and perform some drama, prose, poetry and things like that, but also speeches, informative...

...speeches or persuasive speeches or impromptu speeches, are extemporaneus speeches. So I sort of cut my teeth there at the young age of sixth grade through eighth grade, and I learned more through what I experienced other competitors that would watch them because I want would want to mimic what they did to have success, and this is something that I still do today. What decisions were they making about their communication, about their speech, that made it effective, that made it have impact on me? So I did that all throughout six, seven, eighth grade, Middle School, high school and college. I didn't actually complete that competitive experience and again I'm very fortunate at all. Kids can get exposed. It's called forensics. When you get up to the level that's a competitive speech and debate. When I was a senior in college. I learned enough by that point. So I became a national champion in event called after dinner speaking and I did a number of other events and there were two big Aha moments that happened after that. The first one was I thought I was done at that point, like a basketball career or a Jad career, you know, that's it. Now I'm going into the big bad world of business. What happened was as I interviewed for Jobs, as I communicated with my bosses or eventually went to conferences, I was leveraging everything I learned as a competitive public speaker, and so my Yaha moment was, not only is this great for me, but I can share this with other people. So I work with a company in New York City that did coursework for students and I created my first public speaking course and that was about sixteen or so years ago, and at first I based it on what I learned in competition, but then I began to base on things I learned by going to conferences. And I'm fortunate that I've always had a day job in business. It wasn't always about communications, right I was always exposed to communicators and when they failed and when they succeeded. So the second Aha moment was about three years into that, when I would ask my clients and my students, you know, and they did all the things a good public speaker would that you would get a few google public speaking skills. They spoke clearly, they spoke with volume, they did good gestures, they had good eye contact. But when I asked them, well, what's the point of your presentation, that's when they would say I'm not sure, or my point is history or my point is entrepreneurship, you know. Then they give me a theme or a topic and that's going. That's when everything changed for me and I said there's some thing basic that people are not starting with and if they don't know their point, they are rendered pointless. They do not pass go, no matter who you are. So I changed everything and I would get to the point in two thousand and seventeen and I wrote the language of leadership last year really to put this in the context of leadership. But that is foundational. Is through all my training, my exercises, my writing for Harvard Business Review and Toastmaster magazine and all that. If there's one idea I want people to leave with, it's this. Everything starts with a point. You need to identify your point. You need to understand what your strongest proposition is. Maybe it's not getting more traffic to our website, but it's about saving lives or selling our cocacola. Identify that, sharpen it, champion it and if you're at that level and that level of understanding, then you can succeed in almost any way you envision. See, I like that and and I love your single point, because I usually ask that at the end, but I love the fact that you jumped in right now, like what's the one point you want people to get away? You know from our conversation and that's a great point. But let me ask you about that your journey, because my son's school they have it's a smaller school, but everyone has they do poetry night and every student has to write a pie, a pipe piece of poetry and they all have to get up and read it, and they have storytelling night. Every student has to get up and speak and their belief is not that you're going to be a...

...professional speaker, but the idea of working to get over your fear of speaking in front of people or working towards being able to communicate ideas. I find that's one of the things that's lacking and if I had to say, what I think is one of the most important skills that students leaving school, be at Grammar School and high school, should be is the ability to share their point of view, be able to communicate, have a conversation, because once they do get into the business world, in whatever role it is, we're always communicating, right. Is that something that you see a lack of? And and more more schools are starting to pivot and embrace that and reach out to someone like you to say, could you help build a curriculum? Yeah, it's interesting. My wife is a longtime private school teacher and where we connect an overlap is when she has her students writing essays. This is fourth, fifth, sixth grade. She calls it to so what. So you shared everything that happens to you over the summer. So what? How did it change? How can we, your reader, learn from that experience? How does it influence you moving forward? And these are the things I think would be most valuable for students, that just getting up there and giving all report. It's or poetry. Well, that's helpful and that's what toast masters does, if you have a toast masters group. That's about getting this in front of the audience as much as possible, as you are right come of fear. But the big thing is, and what I want students to know, is there's a difference between performance and presentation, and they never use that word performance when I talk about giving a presentation, whether it's a leader or a professional or anyone, because performance is all about who you are and I'm trying to be this other person and it's about how white my teeth are and what my hair looks today. It's about this, but presentation is not about this, it's not about you. You are the best vehicle and the best voice piece to project that and convey that point, but at the end of the day it's not about this. It's about this. Your point is over here. You've worked on it, maybe with your team. You understand, you know, and in media this is a key point or a message point, a key message. So we call it different things, but decide what it is and then your only goals to move it from here to hear. Right that way, you were like a bicycle delivery person. You're not telling jokes, you're not a fashion model, not performing magic or singing. It's not about you, it's about a very blue collar job. Move this point from here, from my head, to my audience's head, and having that understanding is actually very powerful for students and professionals because it makes them less nervous. What a we nervous about when we think about public speaking or children? It's not really nervous about public speaking. It's nervous about Shamee my going to embarrass myself, make a fellow myself. They're going to think about me. All right, really like me. So let's remove it completely from that and say you just you have a job to do. This is why we say you deliver a speech. You don't perform a speech. So just think of it. As you know, I'd love to get a group of kids together and I actually I go through different departments of my organization and we run an exercise where everyone says one point and we use a test I call the I believe that test to make sure it is a point, and I think anyone can do that. Just share one point and, if you want to go further, prove that point with a story the piece of data with some history. That's it. And if we can get students doing that, then that serves them in multiple interest whether they're inter room for jobs, communicating to people, trying to make points, to boyfriends or girlfriends, to mothers in law,...

...to the person selling Redizza. I mean, point making is a skill that applies to almost everything. Yeah, some of the best advice I got from someone. I was an actor for a few years and you know, I did. Director used to say I don't care how you feel, it's how the audience feels. But once I transition to doing, you know, speaking keynote, speaking things like that, I talk to someone who I admired and I said, what's one piece of advice you would give? And it ties in very well to what you said. He said the moment you get on stage, it's no longer about you, it's the audience. What why are you there? What's the point you want to get across? What's the thing that you want them to leave with? If you're worried about are they going to like me or how do I look? You're focused on yourself. You're not focused on the audience. You will never deliver that to your point you'll never deliver your point, you'll never get your message across because you're so focused here, and that's where that fear comes in, and that just tied in perfectly to the years of acting. But that clarity of having one or two points you want the audience to leave with and then to you to what you were saying before, is then you can decide the vehicle to share the point. Maybe the vehicle is a story, maybe the vehicle is a joke, maybe the vehicles a chart up on the wall with with data points that support your point or conflict against your point. But you have that fact, that clear piece of of a sentence or a thought or an opinion to that we're going to plant our flag on for the next fifteen, twenty minutes or however long, and we're going to all look at it and now we're going to discuss it. And I like that and I also love deliver. That's something we always hear. But once you slowed it down and you said no, you're delivering the message. Oh, that is so true. You're not, but no one says come perform right your presentation. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So in your you, you because you write a lot, as I said, and and and you see all of these, you know, different ways of people learning. One of the things that I'm always fascinated with is how do you as an author? You know, you have your book. How do you do? Do you translate that then and take pieces and then look at again to say we're going to create this into a video series or how I'm going to unlock this for a presentation? Walk me through a little of your process because again, we've talked about it in in in some specifics, but if you are going to create a presentation or a video series or something about get to the point or make sure you have your point or leaders language of leadership, how what's your process? So I do. You know, the book is really a manual for my workshop, and I do workshops for a lot of organizations in my extracurricular time, and it's really taking the ideas in the book and turning them into exercises that are customized for their mission. And I've also been approached by businesses and the businesses create rericulum for professionals, and so I stand in front of a camera and I break it out into pieces. What enables me to do that is knowing the big idea and events. So I do workshop. I only do three basic workshops. So do a workshop on knowing your point, I do a workshop on elevating your emails. Your points come through email, and I do a workshop on understanding how to leverage the platform of zoom and video conferencing to make sure your point goes through that way. Right. So, wherever...

...my journey takes me in terms of sharing that, whether it's a podcast or in interview, or I'm writing for Harvard Business Review or fast company or CNBC, I understand the matter what way that communication takes place, the video, an essay, emanual, what my goal is? My goal is to convince someone of this point and to prove it through examples, through links, through data, and then it's all sort of formatted for me, regardless of the platform or the format. I know what I need to do and I know how to prepare myself. Now one thing I should know to you, and I try to insert into these conversations, is that in a presentation, whether you're a leader or not, ninety nine point nine nine percent of the time you do not want a word for word script with you as your support vehicle, because then you are reading, and reading comes with perils, and reading is another part of your brain that's different from your presenting part. The audience wants this explain to them. They don't want things read to them. So bring notes with you, and the best notes, I like to say, are like the list you bring to the supermarket. You know, in the list you bring to the supermarket, number three doesn't say go into the vegetable aisle, pick up a tomato, search it for spots in the bag, put it in your cart period. It just says tomatoes. Right, and in the same way, your note should support you. I see tomatoes, I know what I wanted to say. They're I'm just reminded that I wanted to make that. Where's a note here of a date or a percentage, so I remember to say that. It's only that's remind you of the things you might otherwise forget. But what that does, having very limited notes but that prompt you and doesn't script you, is enables you to do this right. Here's what I want you to understand. Here's the one thing I want you to take away. No, and see. That is very helpful, and that's why I wanted to ask you that question. Is. I find that many speakers think that and I think it goes back to what we talked about earlier about Oh it's this magical gift. The best speakers were hers. They practice, they have a road map. They know what they're going to say because they know what the point is. So now they know what stories are going to or what data they're going to support. The key is having that bullet point list of just reminding you of the flow or reminding you where. Okay, once we finish this, we're going to move into this section. But you have to map that out. Although it looks effortless, and that's why it can be intimidating, it's because they have a framework underneath. I use the example of driving a car. When we all first learn to drive a car, we add our hands on ten and two, checking all the mirrors, following the speed limit. We were don't talk to me, don't talk to me, I'm driving to now you're driving with your knee and you're talking and you're doing a blazillion things in the car because, one, you've done it so many times it feels natural to you and you're comfortable in it, and I think that's something to support. What you're talking about. Their skills that you can practice and practice and practice. With the right framework, you will get better at it, you will get more comfortable with it and then you find that structure you've built where you can be more free inside the structure. Yeah, and I like to break it down. You know, I always say my job is actually to make this easier for you, because I fear that you're making it hard on yourself by writing a full script, by thinking I have to cover every single detail, convey a virtual wikipedia page on this subject to you. Right, and actually it's much more simple, because you know your audience will me take away one or two things.

So that's why I try to limit people's notes. And they talked about their powerpoint, but ultimately it's about, you know, not only less as more, but more as less. You benefit from streamlining and understanding your specific point of what you want to do that day. Yeah, if they wanted to read, they did. They just go read the book and that is that. To your point is the we've all seen them, powerpoint slides and they just stand up and there read the text. And now you're going. Well, wire you on the stage. I could read. Just give me the slide versus someone who has one word and or a statement. And now you're going great. I can't wait to see where we're going with this. Okay, speaker, take me on the journey. Let's go, and I think you know I love everything you've said because it's it is very simple. It's not easy, but it's right. Well, you have to your you have to know what to do. It's not about when we say less is more and more as less. It's not just about cutting words. That's about really digging deep and it gets to this idea of is, at the end of the day, your highest value proposition? Is it really getting more traffic to our website? Is it really opening up more franchises around the country, or is about saving the world? is about selling more cocacola? Is it about becoming moving the entire organization to the next level of prominence or respect? You always think yourself, what's the big goal that I really want people to understand, and then how can I create a communication that leads to it? And, Glenn, I want to I love to give people sort of tactical approaches. So I want to leave you and then with an equation that good points often fall into and it's this. If we do XY, will result? If we do X, why will result? Now, x is the mechanism and that's always going to be fairly clear, but it needs to be specific that if we do the right thing. But what is something specific? What is that mechanism? Why is the result? And make sure the result is the ultimate result that you're trying to reach, not a short term result. But if you figure out that X and why, most of the lines work of your of your effort is done, because then it's just about proving that x will lead to why. Yes, I love that and that's a that's a perfect place to wrap up. I really love this conversation because I think communication is so important. I think we and I'll speak for myself personally, I write and then I addit wouldn't then I have the fear of I didn't do enough. Versus, someone said to me as well. Well, if you if you're just filling a number, a word count, you'll fill up the word count, but did you make your point? Versus, maybe this is really two points. So that means it's two articles and that's okay as well. And once I started to understand that and and really say going back to your book. This is the point right. All of a sudden, like you said, the the the avenues opened up, the examples opened up, because I was very clear on what I wanted somebody to feel or understand when they were done reading this or watching this or walking out from a workshop. That, I think for all of you listening. You're all in charge of something at some point in your life. It can be your family, it could be, you know, your team. Always ask yourself, why am I having this conversation? What's the point, and make sure it's very clear so that everyone understands it. If not, as you were saying, you'll you're up a level, you're in a category, you're in a theme, you're in a generality. If everyone's looking at you going what, you're not crystal clear enough. So that's that's phenomenal. So at the end of...

...every episode we wind up, I like to just ask some random questions about you so that one they get to know you, but, more importantly, just a few things that have inspired you. Then we'll get let you share where they can connect with you and then we'll wind down. So first question I always ask is what was a piece of advice that you got from someone that really connect I did to move you personally to you know, through either through something you were struggling with or something to help clarify your journey or your point. What was it? Well, I'm really good. Piece of advice I got early on, it's sort of separate from communication but linked to it, is, when you are interviewing for a job, to very pay very close attention to and in fact at the top of list, is who you're going to be reporting to, because at the end of the day, and I think data supports people leave their job, most often not necessary because of the salary or because some of their options, but because they have a problem with someone they're reporting to or work right with. So the opportunity to recognize this, and I got this advice from someone I reported to and I went after I left that organization, I went to him later when I had to choose between two opportunities, and that's when he said look to the person you're going to be reporting to, and they probably interview you, and to the people you'll be working with, and that's what's going to determine your fulfillment as you move forward in that position. That that's great. I like that next question. Is there a place, and now that you know we're travel is loosening up, is there are a place that you have not been to or visited that you would love to go visit? I would love the well, to be honest, the place I'd most like to visit is Japan. HMM. I've not been exposed to that much, to another culture in a different language that was very foreign to me but very successful in certain ways. And you know they're leading. is about learning and experiencing as much as it is about doing so I think I would benefit from being exposed to different cultures, different languages, different approaches, and I would learn more about what they do in their business world as well, and I'm sort of fascinated by that part of the world. So I think going to Japan is high up on my list. That's a that's a great yeah, that's on my that's on my list as well. Okay, two more questions. One is is there a book that you've read or something you know podcast you're listening to her, something you're watching that has inspired you or really is fascinating you right now that you would recommend to the audience? I always try to get resources that my guests are really moving them. Yeah, sure, I think I have it here. Yeah, my friend April Rin wrote this book which is called flux, eight superpowers for thriving constant change, and her big point is as we experience change and challenge, whether it's the pandemic or anything else, instead of being fearful of it and how we react to it, maybe there's a way you can leverage it and succeed based on how you approach it and find advantage within it. And that concept is pretty big, especially nowadays, is more than ever, with so many challenges to our work in our lives. Even so, that really inspired me and I'm happy to be friends with her and support that book. It's called flux and her name is April ring. Great will put that into the show notes as well. So you sort of answered it earlier and I always end this with this question, but it definitely bears repeating. We've spoken for a bit, touched on a lot of different aspects of communication and presentation and skills, but I'd like you to repeat the one thing...

...that you hope the audience takes away from this. What would that be? It would be in a bear's repeating. So I don't mind repeating it. Like we said now, whenever comes from a presentation says well, Joel made this point, valuable point, too many times. So I'm going to reinforce it. And that is the importance of having a point. But you're talking to your team or to your aunt, you want to make sure your communication is impact. It will only have impact if you know your point, if you're sharpening your point and if you're championing, and I love to use that word, championing, your point. Be the person on whom the conveyance of that point rests, not your audience. That means make it clear, be strong and champion it and you'll find that with that basic idea having a point and selling a point, you are well on your way to having that kind of impact. Without doing those things, you are really subtracting and endering yourself in that process. That's great, I and I love that and and I agree it bears repeating over and over again because to me, having this conversation, that was really one of the most helpful things, just to reinforce and re clarify, because I think many of us can drift away from it and we use a slightly dull I always use pencils, slightly dull pencil and I love the thing about you know, sharpen it, make sure it's really sharp and champion it. So so thank you again. This has been really a lot of fun. So how can the audience connect with you? Where do they find you? On Social Media, your website? What's the best and we'll link everything in the show notes, but I like people to hear it from you as well. Appreciate that cline and this was a lot of fun and I hope you benefit from it and your audience benefits from it. The best way to reach me, or to receive a lot of the ideas freely, is to go to my website, which is www dot Joel Schwartzburg dotnet. It's Joel SC HWA RT Z Barg a dotnet. That's where I put all the articles that I've written. All of the PODCASTS have been part of information about the books, but the it people like when I say this. I like to consider my work open code. That is, I want people to interact with it and and take advantage of it. So that's place one. Place two is really twitter. Yeah, you can find me on Linkedin, but I really enjoy twitter and there I am the Joel Truth Thach, Joel Tru thh, a lot easier than my last name, and on that I'm literally just throwing out visually, idea after idea after idea after idea, because this is not a competition. If I'm a good communicator, that doesn't mean you have to be a bad communicator. We can all be great communicated, as plenty room in this place. So I want everyone to have the ability and the mindset and the tactics. It's really a champion those points. So I do it as in as many ways as I great well, please connect with Joel. I connected with him on twitter and I'm looking forward to seeing everything that's coming out. So again, thank you so much, Joel. I do appreciate it. So audience, you know the drill here. Please make sure that you subscribe to the podcast on Apple Or, if you're an android user, over on spotify, you can jump over to the Youtube Channel See the conversation as well, and I really do appreciate it. Please make sure if you found value, I'm sure there's someone in your network that could benefit from what Joel was saying, so please share it out to them. We're relying on the audience to help grow the reach of this podcast to help as many people. That's the reason we started it. That's why we say you're in charge. We're trying to help you when you have that doubt of now, what do I do? Well, these guests, these resources aren't here to help you, so please make sure you share it out. I really do appreciate your attention. I know there's a lot of places that you can consume content, but the fact that you spend time with Joel on myself to Y means the world. And, as I do say at the...

...end of every show, you're in charge, but now Joel has given you some tips and strategies to help you become better both personally and professionally. Thanks again. I look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Thanks again, Joel. Pleasure spending time with you today. If you could.

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