"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch
"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch

Episode 132 · 5 months ago

Don't Give Up on Your Passion with Eric Bishop

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Eric Bishop, international best selling author of "The Body Man" shares his journey as an author. Always fascinated by writing, even while holding down his 9-5 financial services job, he shares how he never let go of his passion for writing. 

As he says, never give up, was his mantra. A fascinating conversation of the commitment he has, how he finally received a multi book deal and his structure in place to funnel his passion forward. 

He shares how he is completing his follow up novel and on to the next one

Such a down to earth wonderful individual. Hope you enjoy it. 

Don't forget to review, share and subscribe to the show.

About Eric Bishop

Eric grew up in Connecticut, and relocated to the South after college. After becoming restless moves to the Rockies and the Pacific Northwest occurred before finally heading back East to raise a family. The wanderlust has never left Eric and he’s always yearning for the next adventure.After many years in corporate America, Eric decided to turn his passion for the written word and dreams of crafting a novel into reality. Eric’s debut novel The Body Man came out on November 11, 2021. He lived in the SouthEast part of the United States with his kids where you can normally find him exploring the great outdoors most weekends all the while dreaming up the next great novel. Enjoy the journey ...

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About Glenn Pasch

"Everyone finds themselves in charge at some point in their lives. Yet many of us lack the skills to generate consistent results. My goal is to help you learn the skills to adapt and grow in your personal and business life.”

Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, a full service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses create and deliver customers raving, recommending & returning for more. He is author of 2 books including "The Power of Connected Marketing" and has spoken and educated audiences throughout the US and internationally.

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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennpasch/

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Company website: https://pcgdigital.com/

Support for this episode comes from PCG digital. As a business owner, you want to surround yourself with people who can help you achieve your goals when it comes to digital marketing. That's what PCG digital does best. If you want a true partner helping connect your message to more customers than you need to, reach out to PCG digital. Maximize your marketing dollars with PCG digital. Go to PCG digitalcom for more information, and don't forget to mention D you're in charge podcast. Well, I am so excited today for this conversation Eric Bishop, author of the body man, phenomenal political thriller. All of you should get this. He was kind enough to join me today and some of the conversations we had was about this idea of never quitting, that we could be our reasons why we never accomplish what we set out to do, where we never finish that first draft in order to move to the next level. Fascinating conversation because all of us at some time probably have a lot of folders on our computers with unfinished ideas or unfinished projects. So I talked to Eric about how he set out and what changed going from unfinished to published. Author and what he does in his day to day to help structure his day to put himself in a position to be successful. Phenomenal conversation. We go down a few other little rabbit holes about writing, but it was a great conversation and I'm so, so happy that he joined me today. So let's dive into today's episode of you're in charge now what with author Eric Bishop. All right, so we are back for another episode and I'm just so honored to be sitting here chatting with Eric Bishop, is the author of the body man, and so, first all, thank you for being here and taking some time with me today. Thank you good I appreciate it. So you know, I ran across your book over the last few years I've really dove into the political thriller Genre and your book came up and was recommended and I dove into it and I thought it was just so different and fresh and fascinating, especially the concept of the body man, which will get into. But more importantly, when I was doing some research on you and you sharing your story, this seems like a big change. This wasn't I've always maybe you always wanted to be an author, but you you know, this is your debut novel. But you were in business, corporate America for such a long time. Talk to me about that change, like what will? Why all of a sudden that pivot to writing and writing fiction? Yeah, no, great question. So it wasn't a sudden change. I will say that I still am in business, so I still have a nine to five job. The writing is definitely my side Gig, my passion. But and what I try to put in the ACKNOWLEDGENCE and why I mentioned that, was for years I wanted to be where I'm sitting now and I wanted to be writing and I wasn't and that was part of the problem. Kind of take it back, take it back a little further, probably college. College is when I started dabbling and writing and I started the poetry of all things. Not Not Writing Novels. WASN' until actually the year after I graduated my first corporate job, is when I started writing and actually novels. And first one was actually a novel with a friend. We I brought a chapter, he'd read a chapter and we he was living, I don't know, maybe Indianapolis, somewhere in the Midwest. I was on the East Coast, and we just took turns writing chapters and kind of got that bug started in me of writing. Like many things, though, I and why I mentioned stuff in the acknowledgements and try to use the platform I have now to encourage other people. Is I let life interfere or take me a different path, I guess I should say versus interfering. Got Married, had kids. I wrote quite a lot over the course of probably the first five to seven years after college, Hmm, but I didn't finish anything, Glen, and that was kind of the thing. That was the cancer that ate at me for years. Is I wrote but I never completed anything. So, and I've mentioned this another interviews, I have sold to this day, on the computer that we're talking about I have two folders. One's called books and it's probably got about twelve to fifteen folders in it. The body man's one of the one of the folders and it's got all the versions. The body man breach a trust, the book I've just finished up now and and working on editing the follow up as a folder for that, as a folder for the book after that and then other books I finished that I wasn't able to get published. I've also got a folder...

...there called old books and the folder called old books are all those things I've started from after college till that probably seven year period or whatever, and none of and what I realized was years later after school, is that I never finished any of those things. So some of them are a page or two of an idea of her story. Some of them are eighty or ninety or hundred pages. So it's not a small amount of writing in there. But the common themeon all of them is I ever completed anything. So so then to that point, then, hat what was the trigger that finally said I have to. I mean I'm sure a lot of people in the audience listing I I can raise my hand to say I have folders of things that either I couldn't find the end of it or I couldn't find the commitment to follow it through. I'm sure we all do. So it's so then, what was that switch or was there some sort of an event that finally made you go I have to yeah, great question, I think so was about see you. When I started. The first novel I completed is called vengeance as a drone story, was my Troy Evan series that I wrote three books out of seven and was trying to sell. So that was two thousand and fourteen. So I think in two thousand and fourteen. So that would have put me in about mid mid S, I guess. Yes, how it was at thirty six or whatever when that happened. I think I had a mythlife crisis. Is what I probably had. Is I kind of said I was in a job that I really wasn't thrilled about, I wasn't thrilled about the trajectory of my professional life and I kind of just had those cup one of those kind of Jesus moments and said, well, what do you want to do with your life? Foolishly, my brain said, well, you want to finish one of those novels you started, Eric. And I say foolish because if you want to make a living in life, writing is probably the worst idea you could come up with. I can attest to that, since I'm now pay a published writer, paid writer, but I'm not as self sufficient, published trade writer, writer. But but really, I joke about it, but I really think at that point and that time in my life, I realized I wanted to do something more. I wanted to leave something behind. You know, with my day to day job. It's a finance job. I'm good at what I do, I work hard, but you know, there's nothing to show my kids, there's nothing to hand off to someone one day and say this is my body of work. A body of work doesn't exist. It's numbers and budgets and bonuses and stuff like that. So I think in fourteen I really my brain went back to all those things I started that I never finished and I just it. I don't remember exact moment. I just remember the feeling I still have now that's really stayed with me during that time is I wanted to prove to myself that hey, if I start something, I can finish something. If I don't finish it, the only person that's honest me. It's on nobody else, and that's what I try to tell people now. I really try to use this platform I have, as small as it might be, to just try to encourage people to say, you know what, you do have the ability to write a book, if that's your passion, whatever it might be, write a song, you know, get a different job, whatever it is. You do have the ability to do that. You know, Ninety nine point nine percent of the people have that. Men Mental or cognitive ability to finish something right. The reason they don't is themselves. It's you can't blame, and I did for years. I blamed, you know, marriage, I blame job, I blamed time and I just got to the point of like, and I'm sick of make an excuse. Is What do I want to do right school one was to finish a book, and in two thousand and fourteen I did and I felt like I was the big deal and I thought, well, here it comes, the bolt balls going to start rolling down the mountain. And what I realized was I was in the bottom of a mountain and I had my first bump. I had to push a ball over, a bowlder over, and it was really heavy and I wasn't going up. I wasn't going down and I'll going up and it took seven years before a body man came out, which is my fourth completed novel. And I don't pat myself on the shoulder and say it's all my hard work and perseverance. There's a lot of things that factored in to be getting the three book deal, but the biggest factor is I never quit. I kept pushing. I had a goal and that's a step there's tons of books out there. I've got, you know, I've got great books here the successful novelist by David Morrel and on writing by Stephen King. There's great books for writing and there's some truths in there that will totally help a writer. Yeah, but first thing in the only rule that matters with writing or whatever creative adventure is don't quit. That's it. That's the sum up everything right in those two words, don't quit out, and I what I love about that. And just two more. Understood your story and very interesting the timing of this, because I had pause the podcast for, you know, about four or five, six weeks because I just felt like I was in a Rut myself of just doing...

...for doing sake, and so finding when I came back, I the episode two episodes ago was all about this. You getting in your own way and then sometimes, if you're leading your team, sometimes you can get in their way of doing things. But I you know, it really connected to me in your acknowledgement at the end of the book and I'm going to just read something so I don't do it. It says, above all, I want my litter literary journey to reinforce my belief that anyone can accomplish any task they put their minds to. No matter what you want to try and life, the only thing standing in way of success is you. And I love this one. Don't be a hindrance to your own dreams, and that just so connected and I agree. I think we all have folders, we all have things that we've started and having completed, and we have a tendency to blame everything else, everything outside first, but eventually you run out of finger pointing and eventually you have to look at in yourself. So, from a technical standpoint, right, as a writer, to continue to say, okay, your I'm going to finish everything. How did you help yourself find there's going to be some people that say yeah, that sounds great, or I want to finish right. We find themselves either structurally not as organized or or some sort of almost looking at this as a job, where you're saying I have to dedicate time to it. Talk to me about how you've structured your time to be able to allow yourself that funnel of creativity to get down to the finish line. Sure, great question. So it's changed? First of all, so for the for the five novels, I've finished. Now I've gone through a lot of different changes in life. So at that first so I'll talk about the first one. To start with vengeance. The first book A. I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I was, I was, i'Lla used the word I was ignorant, ignorance to the publishing industry, ignorant to how you write a book. I had but I what I had that you have to have to actually finish something is I had that zeal to get it done. So I had the motivation. Okay, so the first question I had to ask myself at that point in my life I was married, two kids. So the first question I had to ask on one of whom was very small, as I want to write this book, I want to get this done, but I do not want to hear interfere with most important thing my life was just my family. And problem number two is I had a full time job. So I have two very big time commitments that I are prioritizing before I write a book. So that left me with question three in my head is, well, how do I find the time to do this? So me, at least in that stage of my life when I was going through that, that first book. The one thing I could give up that I had for time killer, I guess I should say, was it. I didn't do social media the time, which is now the probably the biggest time killer ever. Anyone listening or watching this is be like, he's a hypocrite. He's on the Internet all the time on the Alt yeah, I'm on way too much. I fully admitted it. Might have sold a few books for me, but it's eating up a lot of my time. But I gave up television. So that was for a better part of a year. I didn't get me that long to write that book, but I said, okay, what could I give up to free up the ability to write? And so I cut tell levision and I didn't watch tons of television, but I watched enough sports movies, regular shows. So I pretty much cut them out. And the other think two is I did that all in the evening. So had my ninety five job, had my family and you know, everyone would be in bed by around nine thirty, so about ten o'clock was dad's time, and normally I would read or write during that time. I was not read right. Sorry. I would read or watch something on TV. I'd write years over the years, a here and there, but never a novel or never what became a novel. So I just cut all that other stuff out after ten o'clock and I just focused on just writing so real quick on that. What was detrimental to me that I would tell people to make sure they're structured better than I was that first book was I didn't have an off switch. So I started the book. been few years now. So it was two thousand and fourteen. Hey was June nineteen or June twenty three? Two Thousand and fourteen. I've started the book and I was all in. I would write every night from ten o'clock till Glen until I was done with that thought process. Right might be midnight, that might be four am and I had to get up the next morning go to work. I did six nights a week. Basically I took I took the Sabbath off. That took Sunday night off pretty much just then I'd watch something I I then would watch television, you know, kind of decompress a little reward. It was my reward. I watched the Devil Vision for Film. I head was some fanciful story for my reward, but I did that for three months. I did that until September because I finished the book...

...book actually in Yosemite. I was on a business trip. Stayed a little extra for a one day. I had like a drove into useemity at like eight o'clock in the morning and I had to be on the road to get to San Francisco, the airport. I had to leave at six PM. So I had, you know, the better part of a full day to write and I had about three chapters I had kind of left off to finish there and it was probably the most magical from a literary standpoint. It was the most magical day of my life and it will always be the most magical day of my life, even if I become a New York Times best seller or get a big movie deal or whatever. I'll look back at that moment as I cried when I finished the last words. I was up near Merse said Grove, which was a higher part of the park. I wrote most of the time down in the valley, a lower valley, at the waterfalls and all kinds of places. But I think what happened at that very moment I finished it was the release of all that emotion and years really of I want to write a book, and I did right, and that was the feeling. I've never you know, I say this and I don't say it as I make it, but I've never got that feeling again. I've had some great feelings writing. I had some some amazing feelings this year becoming out of this past four months, becoming a published author. But that first moment, it's kind of like having your first child or or all the firsts in life. You write ever replicate that feeling because, and that's what I always try to do, it's like a drug that when I finished a book, I want to finished one. Two weeks ago, Tuesday, I was on my back porch, back here, great feeling. It's a little sliver of that. Said, yeah, you're not your somebody finishing that first book, and I'm like right, Darrone, you Darren. You feel like this is a great thing. So but yeah, no, I just I had to find something to get rid of. I got rid of television and that then was that extra time I needed to get that done. And as life went on, it's changed. My Times I write has changed a little bit. UN Course, I went through a divorce several years ago. I didn't write for better part of a year because I tried and it was just it wasn't there. Right. There was. There was a lot of anger, there's a lot of resentment, all kinds of emotions that might make for a crappy book or therapeutic book, but don't make for something that you know Glenn wants to read Right Eric doesn't want to read. I didn't keep any of it. I'd needed all of it. I don't need this stuff. So that changed life. So once that part of my life was passed, I found the renewed energy I needed and I found the time I needed to write, and so I just you kind of work. You have to work with what you have first of all. But but you do have to structure it. And so do you cap it now like before you were saying you would just run to the end and it could be four o'clock. Is it more structured to say I write for three hours a day or two hours day or whatever framework that is, and when it's done, it's done. I mean every time you might be run writing, some little wave at the M, but you're not just writing till I can't pick up the pen anymore, exactly. So great question. Yes, so that what I didn't finish with the first book is I wrote it fast. I mean that's pretty fast, from June September. I'm again I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't write. I mean the book never got published, so I can't say I wrote. You know, I didn't wrote write Warren Peace and you know everyone flock to it. It's still sitting on my hard drive. I got good compliments from people that read it years later and said Nas the solid book, but it wasn't polished, it wasn't ready to be published, and maybe one day I'll be able to remedy that. But I did physically get myself ill. That's the other thing I cautioned people is I put everything I hand of that all that time, from it was still only ten o'clock till whatever. I didn't I didn't write during the day. I didn't tell my kids a sorry, guys, I can't play it in dad can't play with you, or tell my wife I can't Ye, can't have dinner tonight. I'm going to write. So. So by the end of that, by in a September, when I was finished at the Yoseventy, I was physically ill. I was physically like drained because I just I put too much into it. So I learned a good lesson. So when I started the second book later that year, which is called the SACKARI option, then I become much more structured and then I kind of just I had to train myself and I don't know how I did it. I just know I had to do it at the time of okay, you write from ten o'clock till twelve o'clock. I still have that schedule for a while and I just I told myself, okay, once midnight hits, I wouldn't stop mid word or mid sentence, but I'd stopped paragraph. Okay, you're done, you have to be done, and then I'd probably a lot of times I'd watched an episode of I'd field just to get get the book out of my head, getting Jerry or George or Cramer in my under lane to kind of transition up. They go to sleep. Idiot. But yeah, I had to. I had to. I had to structure it in a way to not allow it, you know, don't allow allow the beast to take over. Basically, right now it's a lot easier now I'm seven years into it. Like I said, I just finished this, the fifth book. I've got two others in various stages.

I don't know. Maybe because I've achieved some of the things I wanted to start with, that the pushes there to finish epislutely. Don't take it that way, but I don't have that. Man. I've got to get this thing out of my system in the next week or month or whatever. Now you know, the publisher can wait. I'll deliver a book when it's ready. I'll meet my deadlines, but I'll modify things where I have to write. But I think that. Well, I'm wondering also. It sounds like because you finished, you have the confidence that you know you can finish, versus I don't think I'm never going to finish, and now all of a sudden you have. Yes, you're guided by your publisher or by some outside deadlines, but you're responsible for the quality and you're understanding what it takes to have a good piece of literature written that you're happy with right and being able to get commented so so on. That I again in your acknowledgements, you you thank a lot of authors that I've read who I've become very big fans of so I'm always curious, you know, how does one research all of this from a technical standpoint? Right, so the body man's talking about thing, inner workings of, let's say the White House, and all the way some of these right teams are going and some of the you know, talking about the guns and the knives, and I know I'm a fan of Jack car and you know and I've read about how you know he was and I see behind you, you know, I'm assuming you were. I would think you're military. Maybe. Do you have military? No, I don't think in the background, I'll tell you the story behind it. But fishing question. So how do you get to that point? Yeah, no, how do you do like technical research on that, or how do you get it so it's right, so someone who understands it looks at it and goes yeah, he has all the facts right, versus Oh, he doesn't know what he's talking about. I make it up really good. Oh, I research as much as I can. I am fortunate with the network I've created over the years. Since two thousand I think, I started social media, and two thousand and sixteen is when I open my accounts, and that was merely because I was querying my first book and agents were like what's your social media presence? And I'm like, social media is stupid. Why would I do social media there, like come back and talk to us when you have tenzero twitter followers? Yeah, exactly, and I was just that that was the part of it. That's probably another conversation and one of other questions. We could focus on the business side of this, which is the up the dark secret, I guess. But yeah, just there is an element of making stuff up. I will fully admit. I won't say what I make up versus what I go right. Probably more than more than people think. Maybe I research as much as I can. So I look at books, not Wikipedia, but go to websites right. It's amazing what you can find out on the CIA's website, on the FBI's website, on the White House website. You can get a lot of details. Someone the secret service stuff. I've been fortunate to meet a few agents and I met one recently and he read the book after, so after the fact, and he was very commentary and I so well, I got some stuff right. He's like yeah, I'm like, well, good, because I made a lot of stuff up. I'm glad that it wasn't totally like people going on God, who is this guy and what's he doing? Because I tried out one thing and I learned this from an author I don't want to name drops, I won't say who. It is new y times best seller, and we were talking one time over drinks and this person's former military has the twenty plus years experience of knowing what he's talking about and his comment to me was, Eric, you don't have the not knocking you here, but you're not former military. Your you don't have the experience. If you get something wrong, you'll hear about it for a long time. So for you, either make sure that gun that the body man is holding, you know an FBI agent has, which that one's pretty easy to research. But right you make sure you have the accurate weapon they use, or just say the word or you say the word weapon. I can, is person was saying. I can, I can do it with authority because I, you know, I write team and so I kind of try to do that with my books, is make it more the layman can understand it, and that's what I really and and to that point, that's what I really appreciated about the book and liked about it because I have read some of them and they get so bogged down in the details of every gun and this shoe and that, and that's fine, but to me like, let's get on with the story here, let's go. And what I found with the body man is it. It places you there. You know what. You can see it, or I could. I could see where I was, see what was going on, but the narrative kept moving and it was just enough flavor to say this is real and without me going well, what does that? I'm now I'm confused, which I don't want to get one. I'm when I'm when I'm reading a book, I...

...don't like slowing down. Yeah, so a I don't want to get it wrong, which I'm not to say there's nothing in my book that's wrong. I'm sure there's a billion things someone could find. People could find out that it really have done this lifestyle be to your point exactly. I don't. I have the point now with my reading that I'll gloss over pages sometimes when they start getting technical, because the secret is I don't care. I don't care what suppressor that gun has and what the Veloct city is for the round or any of that stuff. Some people that is their juice. They love that. They can visualize it better. For me, the bullet went out the end of the weapon and it blew someone's head up or whatever. Right, cool, I understand that. I don't care if it move oneoso hundred, you know, feet per second or yes, Bah Blah, and I respect the authors that put that in there. It's not a knock at them. No, it's not. That's not my file. No, no, I agree. So. So. So let's talk about because I did have this on my list here to understand the business of it. You know, I'm there's a lot of people who write books or self published. I Co authored a couple, you know, and we self published and you you know, you get a few hundred people or thousand people buy them, whatever it is. But the idea, when you mentioned it, also is, you know, social media. Of course people, publishers want to make sure you have an audience because they're going to invest in like, what have you done for your own audience? Do you have a community in order for us to invest in you? So, from that, from going to writing books and not having that, how does one go about finding a publisher? As you said, the dirt, the dirty secret, of where the business side of this and a lot of people just think I'm going to write a great book and not if I think it's great, magical publishers are going to fall out of the sky and swoop me up. Yeah. So, first of all, anyone listening, remember it is a business. Publishers, while they might like your book, they're only signing your you or your your novel because they believe they can make money and they'll make more money off your book then you'll probably make. And that's the that's kind of the dirty secret of publishing. It's not a secret, it's out there. People, I think, tend to ignore that. I didn't when I first started this. I did to write a book. I didn't think about the business side for years. Right. I wish I had, because it probably would have changed those first few years what I did. So I had to play catch up and learn a lot of things, but first and foremost you do have to remember it as a business. So you have to separate the creative side of writing a book from the side of how to even sell that book or how's the publisher going to sell it. You've got to build a social media platform. They're pretty much requiring. Even big name authors are out there. They're hustling. You know, you mentioned Jack Carr. I Know Jack. I met him several years ago and fortunate to keep in contact with him. He's by all accounts. I don't know his sales numbers, but I can. I can, you know, look at Amazon reviews and and see on the New York Times best seller list. I got an idea that Jack's been pretty successful selling books. That he's right. However, Jackson not sitting in Park City, Utah, on his back porch right in books all the time. He's busting his but out there hustling. I mean he's just wrote started a new promo last week, I think, where he shot holes through the yeah, I don't think of that. You know, I say I'm a know when I was like, dude, that's brilliant. Things like yes, I'm going to choose to write for it, you know, like Oly Cow. That's that's but that's the side, that's you. That's that's where the business has changed. Maybe saying twenty years or so, we're maybe further back in that. Used to write books. Give it to your editor, editor and the publisher. They do their magic and then you're just writing the next book. You might do an interview or print interview right now. That that world, it's that world's gone. Not only do you have to write a book, You have to Hawk that book. You have to be doing podcasts, have to be doing social media, and that makes a lot harder, because then that time that we were talking about earlier, how you have a limit amount of time. Sometimes, especially if you have a full time job in a family, that sliver of writing time gets smaller. So that's when it comes down to scheduling and and really just figuring out how you're going to market that book, which is not in the that that answer at left to know what the answer is. How do you market a book, because I still don't know. I've I've gotten a lot of compliments from what I've done for social media and I'd love to say there was this master plan of all these things, had some good ideas and I implemented them, but it's so complicated because something you put a lot of effort into from marking standpoint, you think it's going to work, totally falls flat or pay well. What I like about what you do because I follow you. I do follow Jack Card and jet another and if you other ones, which has been really amazing. Early on, you...

...know, I tweet to Jack Our ahead really and he'd respond back. You know, back in you you're here like the when you said sure, I'll do this, part of me went wow, like he's going to come over on to do this. And a lot of the other you know, Simon Gervase and Chris Howdy and a few other ones, they'll talk back to their you know, call it fans, or just anyone who's responding. That would have never happened along. You never would have been able to reach out to an author. But the fact and your point is what I like about all of it, but especially what I like about yours and why I feel connected in some ways, is you show a lot of your personal side, which I love. You're cooking, you know, watching what likes, though, Oh my God, I was going I might have to get one of those things. That was phenomenal one. But you know, looking at the tarryakey chicken, you were sort of showing off the other day, and but I think that connects with people because they go, Oh, I know that person, I'll read that book, and that's how I stumbled across a lot of the authors that I've read is the fact that I read their social media. It isn't all just by my book, by my book, By my book. It's one book and then a bunch of where they are, they're writing or commenting or how you all in your community interact with each other. Right. It allows people, I thing, to go. I like that person. Hence I will read the book. M versus, New York Times told me I should read this book. You know it's it has completely changed. Yeah, so it has completely changed. So I'll take a step back and say it this way, I guess. First of all, I'm I'm authentic of WHO I am. I put myself out there, the good and the bad. I know I post too much on social media. I've had people say you share too much of what you do and it's not ever trying to be a bragger in any way, shape or form. That's not who I am, but I do. I put it on my website, I put it in my news letter. You know, life's of journeying out of destination, so I try to share that with people. What am I doing that on my journey? Well, I'm going to cow pens and hiking a battlefield. I'm going to Charleston. I'm taking my kids to Gatlinburg and Valleywood. Try to get people to get on people, especially nowadays we are becoming because of social media, because of the world, because of Covid the last couple of years, people are becoming a lot more inclusive. You know, stay in their house and I've got a great house. I got a great back deck. I post pictures of cooking on. I love people to come over and and girl out. I had friends over last night and I girled all that stuff last night. I had a blast watch the final four. But I also want to get everybody out of the House. Let's go do something. I'm this afternoon. I'm going hiking up in dupont national forest with a friend. I don't know my kids this weekend. So I do have luxury of having free time that I might not have had, you know, five years in my life. A little bit more free time. But what I try to be as authentic. That kind of goes back to a conversation I had with again, a very successful author several years ago. Who has the background. They can sell this person's the publishing world could sell this person's background and it Wilso looks. My background sells notebooks. I'm Eric Bishop, a financial analyst who's done some really cool things in life. But I'm not a former navy seal. I wasn't a secret service agent. I did write. Oh, I i. This is going to blow everyone's mind. I didn't kill a solid in lat I mean, Jeez, so I that hurts me from a sales perspective. So, but the person I was talking to like, just build your brand. Is Yourself, Eric. Just be yourself. Put people, put out there what you do. Some people will be annoyed by it, some people will flock to it, some people say hey, I recognize that person. I like to do that kind of stuff. So that's kind of you know, when you have to create your brand. I just decided years ago. You know, my brand, for all its flaws or positives, is me. So put out part of my journey out there and maybe people connect with it and yeah, maybe they want to read my book. No one, but I see I am. I think that's way more valuable. You know, everybody's trying to figure out something, but I always say, well then then I have to remember what I told you on line. If you ever run across me and meet me versus you know, one of the best compliments I had ever received was when I would do some public speaking. They would say you're the same person on stage is offstage. I said, yeah, I really don't change. It's just here I am good, bad or indifferent, and I think, but, but that's why you connect or you you feel oh, he cooks to or he he's out hiking. I do that one. That allows people to say, well then, what we started talking about is that, well, if he can do...

...this, I can do this. Or, you know, he doesn't seem like he's, you know, above us all. Know he's out cooking and laughing and, you know, hanging out with friends and and he's he's open and communicates with his people who, you know, reach out him, versus all I can't talk to you, and I think, I think that's a way better place to build off of as a platform, because I'll guarantee some of the people, if they're out there saying, you know, my resume and my titles in my pat he just go ah, can't we just just push me out and forget that title, because that allows people to start creating things in our own mind what you should be leads to potential more disappointments. Die Completely agree. So, and I'll use an example, probably my and I say it probably something. Maybe people don't like me to say the word favorite, but I do have a favorite author. I got to see him a couple Eksgo. Brad elser here. I saw that. Yeah, S for Brad. Here's this one's a this is my mom's birthday present. She's coming in a week and a half, so I at her again to sign that. But the cool thing about Brad, and he's one of the people I met earlier on, just met online. I've not met him twice person, but just a book signings. But the the cool thing I liked about him was not just what he wrote. I love his books, but I love how he interacts and connects with people. And you know, when I reached out to him, I don't even remember what year it was now is four or five years ago probably. You know, I got a response back and at the time I love this books. I saw his history show on history channel and I'm like and just kind of like what you were saying, what people plays like. Well, cool, this guy, will Brad Meltzer, is replying back to me that just formed, you know, an online friendship and online connection that's maintained and and I've told him over the years and he's in my acknowledgements. It's not saying I will achieve his level of success, but no matter what form of interaction I have with people, on through social media, through writing books, is I'm going to do it his way. I'm using his you know, not not mimicking exactly what he does, but what he is, which is a good person who shows that kindness really does make a difference, helping people really does. You know that that one word of encouragement you give to someone? You know, I what I say I believe in my heart, and what I say I'm normally preaching to myself more so than I'm preaching to someone else. Is I'm reinforcing to myself. Hey, Eric, you need to stick with this and keep writing and you need to do what's right and you need to treat people the right way. act like in the course of doing that, if someone can connect with those words and that can give that person that passion or that zeal to finish their project, and I don't even have to know about it. Just putting that out there. Hopefully that will help make the difference in someone else's life, because I know what it did for my life. You know, I know that feeling of accomplishment of finishing that first book and then the second, the third and fourth and down the line and I'll finish your twentieth book one day. I have no and that's not arrogance. That's what happens when you start something and see it to fruition and see the results of that hard work. That gives you a quiet confidence that you know I can do this right and that could go at some point. Maybe at some point I'll write a book and I'll be like, I don't know what to say, I don't know what to do, but I don't believe that. I believe that now that I've been able to do that and been able to do it enough times to feel confident in my abilities, then it'll it'll keep going. It'll keep going as long as I want to put that effort in to get the desired results. Yeah, and I and what I really like about that. And for the audience, I hope you really just take a moment to really lock in to what Eric said. Is that idea of a kind word just being present for someone who reaches out. You'll never know and you don't need to know, but that person may have needed that at that time. That's why I was saying when I read the acknowledgements that went through and I saw all the people you're thinking, but at that very end talking about what what I read earlier, it just connected to what I had just been through and it was a reinforcement to say that's a really super clear way to say it, like that's there. It is right there that you are you can be the hindrance to your own dreams and for whatever reason compare, you know, when we talk about social media, comparing yourself online to all these people and we forget that they're posting the highlight reel of everything and we're going and so, you know, part of what I was sharing with people was saying, unless you know all the details behind, don't just compare yourself to the highlight reel. But that goes a big way, you know, to when like Jack car like something or commented or thanked me or one of the other authors because I said this is really a fantastic book, and they go thank you very much,...

...like that just feels even more connected to the author to say wow, they took a moment to do that. They didn't have to, they did. But it's also the encouragement beyond it because, and I really love reading the acknowledgements in people's books, because when you see all the people that help them at various stages for what they thank them for, and sometimes it's just thank you for that or thank you for the something, what we might think is small actually in the moment is really impactful to that person and help them through a very tough time. So I think to your point is consciously being aware of it and not doing it for any other reason, just because it's the right thing to do and have such an impact on someone. Well, and I will say in regards to the acknowledgements, that was actually, if not the one of the first questions. The publisher's like Hey, I'm going to get to put acknowledgements and of course you are. I don't want to limit I'll take less money, I'll take less percentage on whatever the book but and my acknowledgence were not supposed to be and I hope people never I haven't got too many comments my acknowledge. So it's it was great to hear what you had to say about them. But they weren't meant to be a name drop or like, Oh look at the people I know. Nothing like that. These are the people that helped me on this journey because when I got to write those acknowledgements, which was earlier last year, honestly so it's been about a year since I wrote them and finish them. You know, in back my mind I said this might be the only book that gets published. They might cancel the rest of your contract. I can sell publish a book, and that's the joy and the and the and the downside of the world right now is anybody could publish a book if you put some effort in. It can be the worst crap in the world, but you can get it out there and you can blast whoever you want, thank wherever you want, but I wanted like so my next knowledge is are probably smaller, but I wanted to get that one out there that said thank you, and thank you from the I don't my heart because that journey for seven years to get that first book published was not Eric Bishop doing everything in the world right and everything that need to be done to make it happen. Now there's a lot of people that gave you know, the Brad Melchers of the world, that gave me the encouragement and said, you know, Brad, even simple things like I've got a sign above my desk, basically, and it was a message he had. He was doing a book to or down in Lanta three years ago, I guess before now what your was in two thousand and exteen. So three years ago. Look at the sign. But he was telling his story real quick. He was telling his story of how he got published and he got to the point of the story of how basically it occurred and what his pitch there was. Don't let anyone tell you know now. He said that an auditorium of several hundred people. I was one of them. I didn't see him before the event. I didn't talk to him or anything. He knew I was coming. I told him I was going to come and he's like great, the great to finally meet you. When he got to that point, he stopped what he was kind of looking, looked over, his eyes zoomed in on me and he said don't let anyone tell you know. I nudged the stranger next to me. I was like, dude, he's talking to me. Guy Probably thought I was crazy. Right pass forward to an hour later. I'm in the receiving line for signing because it prop two hours yet so many people to sign stuff, and I waited to the end because I want to spend a few minutes with him. And as I got up there, first of all I gave me a hug. Great to finally meet you, to see you, which just was like wow, this is cool, as my favorite other showing this genuine gratefulness to meet me. And I said so, don't let anyone tell you know, and he said I was talking to you and I said I know you were. He goes, don't, don't do it your your because at the time I was done with the body man, or for a draft of it was done and I had told him along the journey what I was doing. And again he just ranforced that you can do this right, but you can prevent it from happening if you quit Yo, if you keep getting the doors shutting your slammed in your face. Find one that opens and that could be, you know, for people listening, that could be self publishing. Self publishing is a double edged sword. The downside is anyone can publish a book. So anyone can publish a crappy book. But on the positive side is if you've got a good book, and there's plenty of them, that an agent won't sign you or small I wan't the small publisher. A small publisher, you don't need an agent, won't, won't give you a deal. You can publish it yourself and I've read some self published books that are just as good as, aunt sometimes better that something out there on the New York Times best seller list. And sometimes that's the path you have to go and that's the path I would have gone with the body man if I hadn't got the deal. It just I didn't want to go that but you know, there's there's notes of the whole podcast in it self why I didn't go that route. I might go that route again one day. I've got, you know, those three earlier books I've fend I might try to pitch him to someone at some point...

...again, clean them up. I might do something and maybe I reread them a few years from now and realize that they're on my hard drive for a reason and they're not going to be published. But I've got some really good characters in there that I'd like to explore back when one time allows. But but again, back to what I was saying with Brad, is, you know, having that that interaction with your favorite that again rein it even after the the event ended. I was milling about, I had some books from the side. He had said Hey, chat with me for a few minutes, and he had a family member come up and start talking to him. I think was a cousin, and she was basically saying, Oh, Brod, you know, why didn't you, you know, meet us for dinner or hang out? And he said, let me tell you how book tours work. And I'm off to the side, like fifteen feet away, sitting there holding a book, looking like a door, waiting for your favorite author, and he calls me over. So, Brad, if you ever listen to this, I'll remind you of this story. He calls me over, Eric, you're going to be doing book tours one day. Come over here and listen. This is how book tour works. And for the next ten minutes he told his cousin how it worked on a book tour, as he gave me a lesson of what to prepare for one day when I'm on a bookdoor I can't express what that felt to me insides to know that my favorite author is sharing something like that with me and pulling me into the fold and also giving a confidence of saying you're going to be here one day, right. That's well, that's yeah, and he meants it feeling like you're an equal, like you're part of the club already. That that's that's amazing. That's amazing to one that he thought to do that, but also for you on the receiving end. I mean it's I mean, I'm sure everybody's had that moment, hopefully in one time in your life, where you're looking around going how did I end up here? But everyone's treating you like you should be there. You're absolutely the only person doubting why you're there, and that goes back again to your potentially sabotaging your own dreams when everyone else believes in you. You know, I went through that where my wife used to you know, she used to say you're the only one who doesn't see the person walking in the room that everybody else sees, like she goes, she's a woman. Yeah, she just punched me in a gut one day and she just said, like you're the only one. Do you understand what people see when they you, when you walk in? I was like, she goes, stop it, and so you're right, it is. It's easy to do that, but to have someone that you admire that says, Hey, why don't you come to the table, let me give you a tip, because you're going to do it. Wasn't maybe someday. It's yeah, I know you're going to do it. That's so impactful. So impactful it is. And again that's where it brings me back to using Brad as a model of that's how I want to be with other people and I'm at that point now and I'm still, I'm told, the bottom the mountain, pushing the boulder up. Trust me, I've got a little bit over that first couple Humps, but that mountain still really big and I don't know how tall the mountain is. As far as I care, that mountain doesn't have a peak. I'm going to be pushing this boulder up probably for the rest of my life. Yeah, I'm sure there's some people that get to that mode where it's downhill or flat because they don't have to do it anymore. Maybe they don't care to do it anymore. But it's an upward struggle. But the cool thing is, even as far down the mountain as I am right now, I'm at the point where I'm starting to get people to send me stuff, going hey, what do you think about this? Right? Would you give me a blurb? And I you know, I tried to nicely say I don't know if a blurb from Eric Bishop's going to sell a single book. But you know what, I got blurbs. I got blurbs from some big name authors before the body man came out. That blew me away that I'm like wow, wow, so if I can do that for someone now, and I can't do that for, you know, a thousand people at a time, but if I can do that but a couple people are reaching out any given time and I can provide that for them as well, then I'm paying it forward. You know, I'm giving homage to the Brad Melchers, to the Jack Cars, to the people out there that have showed me kindness along the journey and then continue to do so. And to your point, absolutely they treat you like you're an equal, not some little, you know, redheaded step child. That's sure. You know, back there you are you're on par with them in the truth of the matter is, there's always the exceptions. You know, there might be the hemming ways, there might be, you know, the Dickens, the big, huge name at the time, and we've got a few of them. I'd probably right now that are out there. You would say you're just the big, big name, but for the most part, most the authors out there are you know every day, and it will even the ones that have made it big. I don't know of any of them that were uber successful in life and also that success let them start writing books. Know, many of them actually started with other careers, yeah, and might have been very successful in those careers, but writing books was a passion they wanted to pursue as well. But they started from something. You you know. This isn't some I don't know...

...of any author that started with the silver spoon. That just you know, they could do anything they wanted. So they choose to be a New York Times best seller and Mommy and daddy bought enough books to make them a New York Times best seller right now. Most, most authors I know started with other jobs and and I think that also that that plays into not to go down a rabbit hole. But I think that plays into even myself and other people that have, you know, made it, and I'm not one of the people that has made it necessarily, but is this isn't their first career. This is something that if I had, you know, talked about writing in college and that first book I wrote with a friend, you know, a year out of college, from twenty, twenty two, twenty three years old. That book is crap, by the way. I went back and looked at it several years ago. I didn't read it all, but I read some of it. If I try to submit that to an agent, to a publisher, I'd never talked to you again because they probably blackless me. It's horrible. Right. I wasn't ready skill, why eyes, even emotionally or or mentally, to be successful in writing at twenty three years old. It wasn't till I was three thousand five hundred and thirty six and in. The cool thing about that then, is you also have life experiences to draw off of, unless you're sitting on your couch watching Netflix, you know, with all your free time. I guess then you'll have made up experiences to maybe put the book. But if you're out there living life and you have a family and you have kids and all this the amazing and also sometimes difficult things that comes with all that stuff. Sure you have life experiences to draw off of. So what I was able to write my s and even now in my mid S, is so much more of a vast speaking back to what we said earlier, you know, getting the details right and all that. I'm able to research better. I'm also the able to make up stuff better in a way to make it more convincing, because I have, you know, twenty years of experience, right and professional world, of interacting with people, reading articles, watching stuff my brain. You know, some point I might start going way down hill, but right now it's still in that good phase of the connectually piece together the root excube stuff and right thing as well. So well, listen, I could sit here and chat with you all day about this. Will bore people. Now we how you're not born anyone. But what we do at the end of every episode is I ask five questions, just random ones, called the one first thing that pops into your head. But I always like to understand a little more and I'm can't wait to ask you these. So all right, so the first one is what what? What book or something that you're watching or reading right now that's inspiring you that you would recommend to the audience? What book or something like? I have fallen back into watching a little bit more television than I probably should. What are you watching? I'm watching. Of all, I'm way behind the curve here, Glenn. So I stayed up, wait that all the kids this weekend. So my normal routine for the weekends of not having the kids to stay up like till really, like four in the morning and get up at like ten and do my day and write and do whatever. I'm watching game thrones, all things. There you go, and I'm on the fence about it, though I think it's really cool, but I'm also middle age and so I realized that, yeah, I might say I stay up the four o'clock in the morning, but I might sleep a little bit here and there during some of them. So I keep missing chunks of episodes where I I kind of hope my eyes. I'm like, don't just happens going on here? What is this? So but it's actually really it's a very interesting show and I actually so if I can tell a thirty second story, I met George our Martin. So I was doing one of the things that's really important for writers is part of the community, is to get involved, and starting in two thousand and seventeen, I guess seventeen, I went to my first thriller fests in New York City and I got teamed up with the Security Team, which you know I'm so imposing with my five foot eight, you know, massive Braun. You know, they put me on security. So I of course call myself the lead stopper. I'm the one to just stand in front of the bullet whom. Okay, he served his purpose. Good job, bishop. Some I'm doing security several years ago for George our Martin, and security in the very low text sense of just stand here make sure. Well, they started telling stories of why George has a security and all that. So so after the fact I'm telling some friends. I get back from there and I'm like, yeah, I met George our Martin. That I don't dude. Have you? Have you seen game of thrones? I was like no, no, not watched that. Have you read the books? They're like what that? Did you get in the sign a book? And I'm like, Oh, what's wrong with you? It's George our Martin. I was like, what's the big deal? So I totally was out of the curve of Oh, this is a big deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was pretty cool experience meeting them and some of the stories of some of the things we had that we had to keep people from going behind him for reasons and stuff, and it was it'll make it in a book one day, probably, some of those life experiences.

All right, so let's see one. I'll make the other answers quicker, by the way, sorry, it's all right. Listen, we got time. Were Young. Going anywhere? One place that you would like to travel that you haven't been to yet? That's a tough one. First thing that came to mind was Australia. I would love to go to Australian you're a third person in the last five episodes that have said New Zealand or Australia something about it. Everybody wants to go and I you know, I have a really big bucket list and some of them people think I'm crazy to have. Like I want to sit like not enter the White House. I've been in there three times. I want to sit behind the resolute desk. HMM, actually if I can get an invite to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom. Warp was listening. I want to sneak down the middle and I can go right on the resolute desk but my lapt up down and write a chapter and I'll be my favorite chapter of my life. I don't know if that's going to happen, but go big or go home. You know things I like. But yeah, travel. I have a lot and one of them is Australian sealing for sure. But if I could travel one week of the month, I could afford to. You know, just if I made that George our money, crop the jet and go, I would be on my g six hundred and fifty once a month going hey, I hear Tahiti's nice this month, and the next month be like yeah, I haven't walked the Great Wall in a while, but I'd be on there. Let's go have lunch there, lunch in Paris. So you know Christ are is cletly good. Exactly. Oh, let's go. Let your Paris. My daughter wants to go for sixteen. The by the way, she's like daddy to take me to Paris my sixteen birthday and I'm like darn it, yeah, sure, the worlds like it in six years. Okay, so I since you are such a great griller and cook, I see all the things that your feed makes me hungry at times. Once. You are one go to meal. That is the way that you're the most proud of that. You're like that's what I make, and everybody just goes damn, that's great. Yeah, my go too is probably my full lit I started that and actually I I'm not. I used to do it on the gas grill. It did it pretty good. It's gotten exponentially better. It was good to start with. It's gotten a lot better since I got the black stone. So my sides on that very if I want to go really a little bit unhealthier, I'll do I do a sparagus last night. Yes, they looked this drizzled with wilsamic glaze. But when I want to spend a little extra money and really impress the the friends or my son, mainly because he's the one loves it, is I get P Shudo. So you wrap the ASPARAGUS Shudo. Yep, I've never done drugs in my life, Glen, but I assume that's what crack is like, because they're pretty damn good you do it that way? Yes, when you wrap it up pretty damn good. I've done them myself and that's where I can get the boys to eat it because they go well, that's really damn good. So I will say a little quick on as. Yes, a couple of years ago I had two kids out for dinner. We're out for I wasn't my birthday. It might have been the holidays a couple of years ago. It's just us. was after kind of everything in life. It kind of settled down and went out to a restaurant. I got a filet. We're at a fire books, a restaurants. It's a chain but it's it's a little bit nicer than some of the others. are like the food better. I don't go very often, couple times a year. And I got a filet and I got the kids like from the kids menu, steak and they're looking at mine. They're like what is that and I'm like, oh, that's that's a filet. They hadn't had a full I guess, and had a flay. Probably not. Idn't get so I cut off a little piece. I didn't get much to my flat and so that then started. I started downward you know trajectory with the kids with that. was like, Daddy, we want filet and I'm like Oh, Daddy, you know, I'm like a I'm a hamburger person. Financially that can sometimes there are a Pilateshi, this isn't Bal at that. Sometimes gets something better. It's like crap, I ruined him. Now that's it. My oldest son went from dad one time we were having flat's and he just said this is different. I said Yep, now he goes I'd like that and like yeah, I'm sure you would. All right. So we got two more. Like yeah, two more. What if there was one thing, let's go back to sixteen year old Eric, High School Eric to now. What's the one thing that you would say is similar, that the sixteen year old go, Yep, that's still there, or the one thing also that you'd say wow, that's sixteen year old. Would never believe this. HMM, that's a great question. Probably the downside of that question is I probably am sixteen in my head, so mentally I'm probably still sixteen Glens. So that hasn't changed. Probably there's a few people in my life it would probably confirm that. It's a you never grew up. That's part of the problem. Yes, I can go back to that mindset pretty easy. That a lot of people as they get older, they get real boring, in my opinion. You know, they don't want to go, do they just I don't know, they want to sit home and watch TV and cook on...

...their black stone and you know, the kind of want to get fat happy. And I still have that sixteen year old zeal of going hey, coolest Friday night. And I've told you by myself most time Friday nights, every other Friday and none of my kids. Every other weekend I don't my kids and my Friday night routine is typically grab pizza, go work out, watch a movie late, but late night. But you know, kind of just don't hang out with friends normally they have kids. Right. I'm one of the few single ones in my social circle. Well, this Friday night I was like, you know, guns and roses, tribute bands coming around. I saw US going down to see night train. So I didn't know if it was going to be good. I don't know. I had an absolute last I didn't know a single person there. Didn't really know anyone by the end of the night either. I talk to a few people, but that's that side of meat. It's willing to just go do something off the cuff. Go Drop my twenty bucks, go stand in the front row and scream till my voice is horse, you know, sweet child of mine. And so the the reverse side of that. What was reverse side? What Mson do say? What's comple what? What would the sixteen year old looking at you now saying? I never thought that was going to happen. Who? Who? Yeah, that's a tough one. What would you what you say? You know, probably that I would be back in the south, and that's just kind of life circumstances change. You Week. I kind of lived her years ago during college than after college. I wanted to get out explore. I've always been explore wander lust is very strong and it within me. But life circumstances kind of brought me back here and I think for a period of time that kind of negatively affected me. Put it that way. I think I had an attitude about I don't want to be here, I want to be out exploring, and and that's when, as much as my brain might be sixteen, I am actually forty five and you know, I just realized. You know what life is what you make it. If you don't want to be in a particular place for a period of time, you can either look at it as the glass is half empty or it's half full, right, and that's kind of what the experience is. The last three years of my life, which had nothing to do with covid just other parts of life, led me to believe and in really reinforced to me, that you know what, Glenn, the glass really is half full and if you want to look at it is half empty, you're going to miss out on life and you're going to put yourself in a negative position in life. That yeah, circumstances can throw you down and can throw you curveballs and they're out of your control, but your attitude is something you absolutely have control over. So if you want to keep a bad attitude, you probably going to have a bad life and you've brought it onto yourself to some degree because of what you've done with what's been given to you. Hmm, I like that all right. Last one. We talked about a lot of different things. There's definitely been a few central themes, but if there was one thing that you would want the audience to get from our conversation today. One thing they take away from this? What would that one thing? They never quit love it. That's as complicated as it never quit. You know, I didn't say it this way earlier, but you have to be grounded in reality. Of course, if I'm again, I'm forty five, if I decide today now then I think I want to play basketball, I'm going to be the next Lebron James, I'm going to be a very disappointed person because I will never, no matter how hard I work, I will never achieve that dream. However, if I say to you, Glenn, I think I'm going to be a New York Times best seller, okay, that's possible. It might not happen, but that's something within my wheelhouse that I can work towards because it's something that's achievable. Right. So, and that's what I tried to even tell my kids and tell other people. Look, when it comes to and I use writing because obviously that's what I do in the you know, that's my passion. Finish that first draft. Everything else that happens after that is a whole nother conversation, right, but if you don't finish that first draft, nothing happens. You stopped it right then and there, and that carries over to any other part of life. You have to make that first attempts or that first completion of something before you then can move on to the next thing. So, but you do have to be route ground in reality. You know, I I guess I could still have time to be president. I only president, which sounds like the crappiest job in the world, although there no one could get me to Australia a little easier and stuff on taxpayers dollar. But Um, you know, you have to be ground in reality but at the same time have dream it's kind of like when I talked about the Oval Office. You know I've got some things on there. The people go like you're crazy, that can't happen. Well, everything on my bucket list could happen. Is it going to happen? Probably not, but I...

...tell you how, it doesn't happen if I don't pursue it, if I don't make some effort into it or try to get the connections to the secret service or whatever. It could happen, but I can prevent it from happening and that's life right there. I agree. Well, thank you so much, Eric. This has been a phenomenal way to spend some time, I hope audience. I hope you all so. So, besides going and buying the body man, which everyone should, when is breach of trust coming out? Do you have a pub dates? That's a good question. I don't have an answer to that. Okay, that's I'm assuming it'll come out late and fall kind of around the same time the body man did last year. Okay, but since I haven't given a draft to the publisher yet, I guess we're we had to get down one man. Okay, it might be waiting for me and I'm not. It's not to say I'm not in a rush to do that. I don't have a firm deadline and definitely, as time goes on and I finished the books, you want to make them and they have to be better and better. I've had, I will say real quick, breach a trust. One person has read it. I finished it on March twenty two. I had someone finish it by March twenty four. It's everybody kind of whether it's a spouse, right friend, family member, you know someone that's not related to them. I think everybody has that one person that probably gets the first early drafts and hopefully you trust their their opinion, and so I have the one person in my life who's can be critical, can be couraging, all that stuff wrapped in and I got the thumbs up. That was the good thing of this is the body man was really good. This is better. Here's some kings you need to work on. Yeah, but that kind of gave me that okay, I'm on the this wasn't are creating a story in his head. That's like, well, you screw this one up, dude. I can't I can't wait, I can't wait. So again. So, also, how can the audience will connect everything in the show notes, but how can they connect with you? What's the best way for them to learn more about the body man but also connect with you if they want to reach out to you? Yeah, so my website, Eric P bishopcom. My Middle Name is Paul, so I there was already an air bishop out there. So Eric P bishopcom has all the links that can get you to the book. I've probably twitter's the best thing if you want us see what's going on in my life and what I'm doing, and it's at EPB. Author, my initials, and I'm on Facebook, Instagram, I even have a tick tock, Tick Tock Account, which totally embarrasses my children. I was already told I'm not allowed to have one, even though my business is marketing. They're going, please don't, please don't. It sells a single book, but I take some of the videos that put on twitter and it takes about thirty seconds to say upload of Tick Tock's about the extent of my tick tock is very well. All right. Well, audience, this has been a phenomenal conversation. As I said, please go out and get the book. Please reach out to Eric if you bunk. He's a great follow on social media. That's how we connected. You've been very generous with your time. You know the drill, folks. I want to thank PCG digital for being a sponsor. If you found value today, please leave us a rating, share it out, because I'm sure there's people in your network that could benefit from the conversation we had today. And don't forget to subscribe. As always, I appreciate your attention and whenever, as I say at the end of every show, whenever you're feeling you know you're in charge. Now what do I do? We're here weekly with guests like Eric giving you tips and strategies to help you move forward, to become the person, the leader, whatever you want to accomplish, we're here to help you every single week. So thank you so much. Appreciate your attention. Look forward to seeing you next episode. Again, Eric, I am just so honored. Thank you so much for spending some time today. Thank you, Glenn. Don't forget audience never quit.

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