"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch
"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch

Episode 134 · 3 weeks ago

Communication Tips from a NYC Prosecutor with Laurie Gilbertson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Communication skills are key to leaders being effective. Not in just speaking but listening, strategizing and being able to make your point. 

Who better than a former NYC prosecutor to share what works. Having the ability to ask the right question, to guide the discussion and then convince a body of people to decide the case can be useful for everyone who listens.

Enjoy this great discussion filled with tactical tips. 

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About Laurie

Laurie Gilbertson is a former New York City sex crimes, organized crime, and homicide prosecutor, television legal analyst, educator, and entrepreneur. As the owner of Tribeca Blue Consulting, she helps professionals communicate with clarity, confidence, and creativity in their public speaking, presentations, trial work, and media appearances.

In 2019, she became a member of the Board of Directors and helped launch the Legal Entrepreneurs for Justice, an incubator program for attorneys starting solo firms to help provide access to justice to Coloradans. She currently serves as an advisory board member.

Laurie began her legal career with a federal clerkship in Washington D.C, after which she joined the Queens County District Attorney’s Office, where she prosecuted homicides, organized crime, sexual assaults and violent felony cases during her ten-year tenure. She translated her extensive trial experience into creative and comprehensive on-air legal analysis for local and national TV and other media outlets, which she continued when she transitioned to a role in the non-profit sector.

Laurie graduated from Cornell University with a B.A. in Government and received her law degree cum laude from the Washington College of Law at American University. She is licensed to practice before the U.S. Supreme Court and the bars of the States of Colorado and New York.  

Website: www.tribecablueconsulting.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauriegilbertson/

About Glenn Pasch:

"Everyone finds themselves in charge at some point in their lives. Yet many of us lack the skills to generate consistent results. My goal is to help you learn the skills to adapt and grow in your personal and business life.”

Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, a full service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses create and deliver customers raving, recommending & returning for more. He is author of 2 books including "The Power of Connected Marketing" and has spoken and educated audiences throughout the US and internationally.

Let’s Connect:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennpasch/

Personal Website http://glennpasch.com/

Company website: https://pcgdigital.com/

Support for this episode comes from PCG digital. As a business owner, you want to surround yourself with people who can help you achieve your goals when it comes to digital marketing. That's what PCG digital does best. If you want a true partner helping connect your message to more customers than you need to, reach out to PCG digital. Maximize your marketing dollars with PCG digital. Go to PCG digitalcom for more information, and don't forget to mention D you're in charge podcast. One of the best traits, are most important traits, of being a great leader is your ability to communicate clearly and concisely to your team in order for them to take action and generate the results that you require. Unfortunately, for many leaders, we put pressure on ourselves to be more of a performer than a communicator. We've split the world into on stage and off stage and we feel that, well, we're not a great presenter. I could never be on stage and speak to thousands of people when, in reality, we're just asking you for a status update on a project that you're working on. So are there ways that you can become a better communicator? Absolutely, and that's why I'm excited for today's show Lorie Gilbertson has joined us. She for many, many years was a prosecutor in New York City trying cases, high level cases, so her ability to communicate was really key getting her point across very, very important to the success of the trial. Well, now she works with individuals and corporations to help take what she learned in those years of trying cases and and helping them improve their communications. And we have a fascinating conversation today on tactical skills that you can apply today to make your communication better. So excited for today's show. So let's dive into today's episode of you're in charge now what with Lori Gilbertson. Great, so thank you so much for being here and I wanted to start out our conversation your history fascinated me when you came across, you know, my email, and I was looking at you as a prosecutor. You know, fascinating. I don't think I've ever had anyone with that type of experience here. But what you're helping people with is this idea of communication and being able to use your words correctly, clearly concisely to get your point across. Either, in some cases, media presentations, but also for your team. So I'd love to start there. What do you think leaders, or most people, are miss when it comes to how they commune, nicate their points or desires to their teams? Now, people often miss the actual importance of communication. It is really regarded by so many leaders and even so many team members as a soft skill, you know, as one of those things that you're not even you know, you're not even supposed to work on it. But everything starts and ends with communication. You know, are you talking to your team about a new idea? Are you trying to get up in a meeting and put something out there that you want to convince people is a great way for the company to go? Do you have questions, even maybe about a test that you have and you want to be sure you get it right? If you can't communicate with your team members as a leader or even as an employee, then how are you going to clarify things? How are you going to know that what you're doing is really what the company wants? How are you going to move ahead? And then how are you going to take advantage of opportunities? You know it is we are not telepathic right leaders cannot telepathically let their team know exactly what they're expecting. And if you don't set expectations and you don't set boundaries, how can a company really function well and how can people within that company live up to their potential? That's a great point. I was having this conversation with someone the other day about this this idea of, and I love the word that you use, telepathically. They're talking about great leaders get their strategies and share their conversations through stories. Right, we're going to paint this picture, and I said to them, well, I think where the disconnect really is is I could paint a great story but, to your point, I'm assuming that the listeners are going to get that same image in their head or they're going to know what to do with the story. We miss talking in actionable terms for whatever reason. So for you, when you're touched...

...on that, is that a something that we just assume that people are good communicators are bad communicators, and we forget to take it to that extra step to paint that picture of here's what I need you to do. Yeah, you usually cannot be straightforward and simple enough with people. You know, it's all about knowing your audience and knowing who you're talking to, in the fact that when you're communicating, it's really more about the message you're going to across and the person who you want to to take that message in and understand that message, not about you. So, you know, to that end, you've got to kind of set an area in between you and the person you're speaking to or the audience you're speaking to, of a collective and common understanding, and you want to be sure that you have that before or say, you know, you pay one of those beautiful visual pictures that maybe works for you, that your audience has no idea and then you've wasted that you know, you said something interesting, Gleim. When we start out, you talked about words. You know, what words are you using? And then you also talked about talking. You know, how are we talking to people? Words and talking are just a part of it. You know, there really is that visual communication, that emotional connection with the people who you're speaking with. You know, ninety three percent of our communication, I think that's the statistic, is not actually the spoken part of it. So when leaders are thinking about communication, before they, you know, go out and paint that beautiful picture which you know I work with people on it's a wonderful thing to do. You have to think first about what is the point of what I want to get across? What is my message here? What do I want say my direct report to leave with from this meeting that we're having right how do I want them to feel emotionally? What do I want them to understand and how do I create a space where we can have a really great back and forth communication and we are communicating on the same level? You know, it's I don't know that people can see it, but I'm kind of holding my hands going, you know, at odds with each other, where you're just on parallel, you know, parallel areas and you're not really communicating. So that's something even think about before we even get into storytelling, which is a wonderful thing to use, a great tool for you, gotty no, and I love that. So there's two two things I want to touch on that because my brain went two different places. One is when you're saying this idea of seeing visual how much zoom really impacted communication over these last two years, where everything is very flat, as you said, and we don't have that ability physicality really to move around everything is from, you know, the neck up, and we're just talking, so to speak, and everything is flat. So that's one piece and then this other piece. I definitely want to talk about the zoom, but then this this piece of creating that, that that safe space to have a conversation versus. A lot of times we may feel it's a one way street. My, my, the boss leader, whoever tells me not, my head and I walk out go. Well, I hope I figure this out correctly, because I don't have we haven't created that. So let's talk about zoom first, because if you're helping everyone with communication and, as you said, nine me something percent is physicality, how do we get past zoom or are we just happy that we're getting out of zoom? What are your thoughts on well, this zoom fatigue is real, isn't it? Yeah, it a mean. We've been living in this for three years now, and this three years now, and at first it's this wonderful thing. We can be in touch with everyone and then, you know, as we go along, you realize there is that two dimensional part to it. So there are couple ways that can impact that and make it better, because I don't think it's going anywhere. There are so many remote things that are good about zoom and other tools that we want to keep, but how can we get away from that zoom fatigue? So one of the things that that can make it more visual is something that that you're doing as we sit here. You've a great background behind you. You've got some some cool things up there and some cool pictures in the back, thinking about where we are and how we want to present ourselves, not just our bodies kind of two dimensional in the zoom background, but what's behind us. I've got, you know, a bookshelf and some stepth behind me to make it a little easier to look at. When you communicate with someone, you want to have as few barriers between you as possible and you know, I see that background as a way of eliminating a barrier. If you have, you know, your company background with some big logo in the back, and it's okay,...

...it'll do. If you have a blurred background because maybe your places is messy, okay that that happens, but being able to personalize it so that when you come on it's not just you visually, you have this huge campus behind you to even put more of yourself that and make that connection. You know, I'm looking at pictures behind you and I want to we can even get a chance to chat. I want to chat about all those things because that's so interesting, and then that forms a connection between us where you can share something that that is interesting and personal and impactful to you and you know I'm interested and I can learn something. So before we've even started our zoom meeting and started, you know, the the substitutive part, we've made a connection. So that's one way. The second way is you talked about you know, it's just the head and shoulders and right we feel like these disembodies. Yeah, boddies, you can move. You know, I have a standing kind of dust thing that I put on my desk when I want to give what I'm giving presentations, and it helps your voice when you're standing, and so you can do that. You know we'd get very used to the sitting, but you can stand and back gives you a little bit of movement. It shakes things up a bit on makes it a little more interesting for the people watching you and gives you energy. Another thing that you can do on that zoom, which is something I'm also doing right now, that helps your voice because, as a friend of mine who is a voice coach, that said, we're all voice actors now. We're all using our voices on zoom now the way she's been doing it for years and years. So well, right. So one thing I recommend to people is, and I'm doing it right now to is sit on the edge of your seat. Sit on the edge of your seat, you know, it kind of has your body straight, your diaphragm can get the Airin, you can get your voice out better and you just feel a little more active and engaged. Yes, lastly, yeah, good. Just one more thing. I'm sure our brains don't really work to look at ourselves. I'll take long on zoom. So there's a there's a great little feature on Zoom if you go to where the three dots are, you know, up on your picture, and you can push hide self few and then you're not distracted by looking at yourself and then you can really give your full attention to who you're talking to. So I use that fairly often. I encourage people to use it. It just kind of helps your brain stay focused. Yeah, and as really where you are. Well, I love all of those because what we're trying to. I love the idea of the backgrounds because it does breed some conversation points besides just everyone looking the same, but taking it a step further, because what you got my again, my thoughts going is, as a leader, being aware of WHO's engaging who's not engaging. I know my children. I have a fifteen year old and soon to be seventeen year old. You know, going to going through school was very hard for them. You know, my oldest one was just doesn't learn that way. I mean he still did, he's still, you know, a straight a student, but it was not easy for him because it was this idea of not participating, not really being able to see the teacher except for the head and everything was disconnected and he said, I can't learn this. Why? I don't like learning this way. It's not I can't, I don't like to. So I think also as leaders, when you're you're running these meetings for your team, finding other ways to check in on them to make sure that they're connecting. Maybe it's a phone call. They feel more comfortable on the phone, maybe they're more comfortable with a you know, a facetime where. To your point is, we're moving, we're not stuck behind the zoom camera, because if not, I think you're going to some of your people will just go silent because they are afraid to say. Goes back to what we were. You were your idea of having that safe space to basically raise my hand and say this is not working for me. How can we spend some more time together? So I fully understand what you want because just this meeting with fifteen little heads, I get lost, I get disconnected and I'm afraid now that that is so true and the word that you just use with your son talking about that, the disconnect. It's just so real. I mean I've got two teenagers, three teenagers to the same ages as yours, and you know we see a lot of that and they want to learn, whore want to be connected. I have never seen three teenagers so eager to go back to school and go back to in person school and everybody I'd see it. But they're hungering for that connection. And you know your point about leaders using a different medium, and that's another part right of knowing your audience. It is someone you know, a...

...real introvert. We're on a zoom meeting of fifteen people. They're going to turn off that camera and not participate, it's going to be kind of worthless for them and for you. Through nobody's fault, just that personality. You know, why did everything have to become a zoom meeting and all of a sudden all of these, you know, maybe phone calls that we had or times you would maybe be walking and talking to someone, all of a sudden they became zoom meetings. So I love your idea of not having to default to that. Yeah, just because it's a meeting doesn't mean it has to be a zoom meeting. What works for everybody? You know what works best and just knowing your team, know you're just like you know your friends. Do you want to get on a, you know, happy hour call with with your friends and drink a glass of wine on a Friday afternoon during the pandemic? We all, I think, connected with some people doing that. Maybe you're comfortable going to a park and you all could maybe distance at the time and still talk and have that connection. So it's all about just creativity and being open. We don't have to do things a certain way just because they've always have been done that way, just because everyone made it a zoom meeting doesn't have to happy knowing and I think that's really again, folks who are listening, I hope you're taking notes here, because this idea as leaders we have the ability, in the flexibility and it's sort of the responsibility to try different things, to be able to look at our team. We were. I was having a conversation with someone the other day or the podcast, and he talked about other focused. That was the way he said, to skill, not servant leadership. He always thought focus just on your team, where other focus mean you're constantly focused on the other people. So that means other departments, everyone on your team focused on customers. But this idea of really making sure each individual on your team were in your circle, is understanding, is receiving, is on the same page and having the flexibility to say, well, this person, I do phone calls with a they want short phone calls, they don't want to be tied down for an hour. Other people it's texting. Some of my team it's Google chat, I don't need to talk, you know. So it's that idea of a tool belt and pulling out what you need for the individual at the right time in order to move the machine forward. I think that, to me, is really one of the keys for leadership because, as you said, communication doesn't have to be you don't need to see my face. A text is good, chat is good, all of that works whatever that team needs right. And you've hit on such an important point for leadership, which is that a leader can have a certain communication style that they are most comfortable with, but part of being a good leader is being adaptable and flexible, like you said, to your team and knowing what everybody's got a different communication style that they're comfortable with, knowing what the people on your team are comfortable with right. When I when I start with clients, I will ask them when we're talking about setting certain communication goals at and I'll say, well, you know, in terms of accountability, how would you like me to hold you accountable? Is a text good? Do you want an email? Do you prefer that we set up a phone call every week? Do you want to just do the session and then we talk to each other at the next session and you know that I'm going to be there holding you accountable the next one? What works best for you? Right? If we don't going back to the telepathy, wouldn't it be nice if you become a leader and all of a sudden you get that superpower, but we don't. So if you don't ask, you don't know, and so many people are afraid to ask. Yes, I agree and that and you can even take that a step further, because when you're a leader and you're trying to coach and develop your team to add on a new skill, a new trade and something that you're trying to teach them to do, not everyone learns the same way. Someone could give it to me in a manual, let me read it, I have it. Somebody else is I need to watch a video. Someone might be I need to watch you do it and then I can do it, or you can just tell me and I have whatever it is. But again, this this idea of leadership, is flexibility. Because, judge, and I think you hit it spot on, and everyone understand this, just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everybody. So if I learn a certain way, that may be preferred for me and I should be, you know, moving that or communicating that upstream, because if I'm leading a team mom on someone else's team and they're holding me accountable, how do I want to learn? But going down, having that flexibility to say, well, here's how everybody wants to be spoken to, communicated to educated. Then then you can become more...

...other focused and get the most out of your team. Yeah, and look, leaders don't automatically have the ability to communicate and to learn in everybody's different style. It's a learning experience for four leaders and I encourage people to do much of what what you're saying is to kind of embrace that vulnerability. If someone says I prefer to use slack, I feel really comfortable on slack and Your Company doesn't have slack, take a look at slack, you know, see if that'll work, if that's got to you know, maybe that person has a great idea and maybe since they communicate that well, communicate that way in a good way, maybe other people might like it too. Maybe you can give that person the opportunity to take some initiative in the way that they learn and to teach other people that this is a great way to communicate, in a great way to learn, and maybe some more people could embrace it. That's going to make even more communication among your team, not ste a team, team member to leader. So it's an you might already to have something. You know, for us we talked about someone mentioned slack and my team looked at me like I had eight heads, because they say, well, we've been using Google chat for the last year and a half. Why don't you start using Google chat? And I thought, Oh, never thought about that, you know. So sometimes you may have an alternative already in your possession that maybe you're not using, especially if you're using the Google suite. You know you probably have it. But I love that idea of again goes back to that image of we have a space in between where everybody's supposed to be contributing ideas to write. It isn't just top down. I think those are the, in my opinion, the worst run companies, because then everything is either forced from the top down without any feedback from the front lines or input, and then it's just while I'm the boss, you know, I got my manager Capeon and my manager name tag and I'm strong now, versus creating a repository and saying, okay, here's our this is what we're trying to accomplish. Okay, everybody, what do you think? And now all of a sudden someone goes, well, I think this and I think that and I think this and we shake it all up and then we to your point is, we come up with an answer and then we give everyone there marching order, so to speak. But making sure that everyone knows when we leave this meeting, this is what your accountable to do and you know how to do it and if you don't know how to do it, you have permission to come back and say didn't want to take up the meeting, but I need some help figuring out how to do this, and then we work that. Yeah, and then you're getting input from your team, which is what you want. So it's not, you know, fifteen people on a n a zoom meeting just listening to you talk. You're getting that, you know, amazing creativity and diversity of ideas. That is really going to help move everybody forward. Yeah, people have to understand that communicating in that way is a good thing, that contributing is going to be welcome, that their voices are going to be heard. It doesn't mean that every idea is going to be accepted, it doesn't mean that you know everything and knock it out of the park every single time, but just knowing that it will be received by the team members and by the leader in an open way. Is, I think, really the most that you can ask for in that kind of communication. No, I think it's. I think it's so important that I always say we all should have healthy egos, but not egos that, you know, block other people's opinions or can you know something for consideration. Just because you're in a position doesn't mean you know everything you know. I've been told Multiple Times that you know it sounds good in the board room or sounds good on that white board, but down here on the front lines you forgot to take x Y Z into consideration. You need that feedback in order to save time, savory sources speed up that process. Because another word that gets thrown around a lot is culture. All, we have a great culture world. Your culture is built through the daytoday interactions of a company, not because you wrote something on the board it says, oh, that's our that's our theme, and I think it all goes back to this idea of communication, being willing to listen, be curious about other people's ideas and opinions and really want them that. Why else did you hire them if you don't want their input on your team? That just always confuses me why it becomes so onesided. Yeah, that communicate. Good communication is not one sided. HMM. It just it just isn't. That's not good communication. That is giving orders maybe, or managing in a way that doesn't take into account your team and the people you're speaking with, but that is is not good communication. It's not good, it's not productive, it's not opening, it's not welcoming. It's a conversation. It is not. It is not. So let...

...me ask you, Dad. So someone who's sitting here listen says I'm new to this or I don't think I'm really good at communicating. I get uncomfortable, stage fright could and not even talking about presentations, but you had mentioned earlier on someone just standing up in a meeting to deliver a report and their stomach is going and I don't want to. What are some tactical tips? or I mean, besides coming to someone like yourself, which would be great, how does someone work at this, because it is a skill. How does one get better at speaking? I think you you need to understand, first of all, that everyone can learn to communicate effectively. Everyone can. This is not, you know, a skill that people are born with and you get up and you're just natural. I mean I've encountered a few, but they practice a lot. But that you're this natural story teller and everyone's going to hang on every word. The people who get up who are like that are the people who spend hundreds and hundreds of hours perfecting their craft. It's like playing a musical instrument. You do not expect that you're going to get up and play, you know, a beautiful concerto on the piano, but you can learn. You can learn and you can get to a certain point where you feel comfortable doing something in the style that resonates with you. So some tactical tips. Say there's a meeting and you've got to give an update on something that your group is working on. So it's going to be maybe three to five minutes. That's it, but that sounds like a lot to someone who's really terious. It's like that's ours. So the first thing is prepare. There is so much that goes into it before you even deliver anything. So prepare. Know what it is you want to talk about, and I would encourage people to think about when you get up and you're going to be giving this update, say to yourself. This is a story about X. can you complete that sentence, just one sentence? Can you know kind of can you tell it to a five year old or a fifth grader? Can You? If you can't do that, how are people going to understand? So this is a story about the creative things that my team has been working on in the past two weeks and where we want to take these initiatives. That's what it's about. So so then, you know that's your message. You want to prepare, anticipate what questions would be. Think about when you're getting up. Two things that can make that presentation so great and make you so comfortable are knowing how you want to start, knowing how you want to end, and I don't generally encourage people to memorize things all the way down, but knowing and memorizing those first thirty seconds that are going to come out of your mouth and knowing and memorizing those last thirty seconds nearly guarantees that you're going to nail it, because people don't do that, they don't think about it. So think about that. What can be interesting to talk about? You know, maybe you're getting up and saying I know everyone has been sitting here with dated breath, wondering what my team has been doing for the past two weeks. But you can release that breath now because I am here to update your you know, or whatever fits in. But know how you want to do that. Think about it in a way that feels creative, feels interesting and it's going to kind of draw people in. Practice that that helps with the nerves. If you hear the words coming out of your head, out of your mouth, and you hear them, you will get more and more comfortable. So the practice and the preparation cannot be overstated, because that's what you need to have for that confidence in getting up. But some technical tips. You've practiced, you've prepared, you figured out how you want to start and how you want to end, so you're making the most of those two times before you go on. Kind of want to center yourself before you head into that meeting. Take a couple breaths, baby, close your eyes, take three to five deep breaths and just think to yourself. Instead of thinking I'm so nervous for this, I'm so nervous, reframe it. I'm so excited. I'm so excited because you are presenting some information that people want to hear. That's your point. And getting up there. Everyone always says everyone wants you to succeed. Your audiences friendly. I found that wall. You can think that. It doesn't often help with your nerves right, it is about them. You know, it's not really about you. So how can you take yourself out of it and think of it as just the message? What are you presenting and you're presenting it in the best way possible. So the more time you spend before actually getting up there, the more comfortable and confident you'll feel when you get there. Another thing with nerves is to understand that it is good to have some nerves. If you have...

...nothing, it tends to me and you don't really care, it's not important to you, you're not taking it super seriously. Those nerves, when you get up, kind of convert to the adrenaline and the emotion that makes it more interesting. So that kind of reframing with a few deep breaths, getting up and then going and just thinking these nerves are good, they're going to make me interesting, they're going to make me better. The other thing that you can do if you are someone who just you know, none of this helps. No matter how much you do at the nerves are so bad, is to get up and when you get up, take a deep breath and do what? Do? What we call kind of breaking that fourth wall, what Comedians call calling the room, and just look around at everyone and say, you know, I'm excited to be here and I am really nervous. So I appreciate if you bear with me, ask any questions you have and just know that you know I'm going to make it through this. I've been working really hard on it. I'm excited to talk to you, but I really have a lot of nerves right right and then you're going to find that people are with you and if you even kind of tell your team before that or tell your leader before that, you know I'm excited, I'm super nervous. You know. Can you just give me a smile while I'm up there? Can you give me some eye contact? People are going to help you out with that. Sure. So I hope those help someone. Those are not. I think those are know, those are great because again, they're very tactical. I think a couple couple of those points reminded me. I was a I speak, but I was an actor for a long time. And I remember a director used to say it's all about the audience, it's not about you. And then when I started speaking, I became friends with a very successful, you know, keynote speaker, and he always said, if you're worried about if they're going to like me, then you're focused on yourself. He said, as soon as you hit that stage, it's all about them. And he said, to your point, you should be excited. They've asked you to be here, they've asked for you to be on this stage. But the question you have to say is, what am I sharing with them? What am I teaching them? It's not about if they like me. I have a message to give to them. Again, my I had a boss who used to always, in conversation, say what's point be, what's point B in this conversation, meaning what are we going to learn? Why are you communicating this? What's important? So, to your points, having that moment and practice, I cannot agree with you more. I've we've all been in presentations at conferences where someone races through the last twenty slides because they didn't paste themselves correctly. And people have asked me. I said I practice my presentation. I time it, I practice it. I save time for in case the PROJECTOR goes dead. I said if in case they have a lot of questions. So their strategies to do that. But I think to your point is that if you practice it enough times and know your information, be it that you put it on bullet points and you say here are the four things I want, and keep it simple too, not twenty for communicate and then let them ask questions and they'll go get the other ones that they want. That and those tactical tips of breathing and looking around rooms, those are all magnificent. And again, for all of you who are even if you're a season professional, I will tell you none of you are practicing as much as you should be, because I've sat in your workshops and Y'all could get a little better. It is. It is so true. I mean I have to say I was never one when I was in court as a prosecutor to probably practice as much as I should have because there was so much emotion involved all the time. I would practice kind of my my, like I said, my first you know, thirty seconds. In my last thirty seconds I would have cold and then that gives you the opportunity to kind of add live and know where you're going with the rest. But now when I do get presentations, even ones that I have given ten times a practice, you know, I find the you know, I go to the room. If I can of where I'll be presenting, when I'm doing it on zoom, I put it on presenter view, I tie myself and I go through. When you hear those words it is so different than how it is in your head that it's not like the words coming out of your mouth are different. It's going to help you get better and better and there are lots of sophisticated techniques that people can try and once you get a little more comfortable you can start doing those things. But two things you said really resonated. The first was slides. So goodness, if you don't need slides, don't use them. Oh God, don't need them, don't use them. First of all, it's a tech thing, so it's one more if...

...you're anything like me and you worry about right, they're going to go wrong and what's the plan be? So it's one more layer of nervousness. Nobody really likes slides. You don't need them. You don't need them. The only reason I think people use them that much is, you know, in the good sense for visuals or graphics that can really be helpful, videos maybe that you're playing that add to what you're doing. But if you sit at who hasn't sat in a meeting or presentation, and someone pulls up the slides and the text is so busy over it you can't read anything and you know that the next hour of your life it's just gone. Or they sit there and they read the slide. Every Nice set there and I'm going, why are you reading the slide? You could have emailed those to me, you know, and yeah, well, what's your opinion of this? You know, to your point is it should be graphs or or assets that are going to help help your situation, but to have these it's just and to your point. The other point is, especially people who have done presentations and you may be in a situation where you have to give them the same presentation four, five, six times. If you don't continue to practice it, you'll be surprised how much you take for granted and you cut corners or you maybe worn is clear or your rush. Then you go back and practice and you say, Oh my God, I skip this whole section or I forgot about this or I wasn't his clear. So we literally is practicing it every single time because that's the first time that audience is going to see you. So you want to make that great impression every single time and you don't want it to get stale. HMM, and I would have. I figured you probably find this too. You'll give a presentation, you maybe get some great questions on the presentation and what that starts to tell you is maybe there are a few holes here, then I'm not covering right and you can work in those questions. I had a great question at the end of a presentation that that was. You know, Laura, you told us we have to have this start strong. You know, I cannot say enough time. Start Strong, great introduction, ask a question, tell a story and strong, you know, leave your audience with something. But what do we do in the middle? That was what do we do in the middle to keep everyone's attention? I thought that was such a great question and it led me to talk more about how you can put in those same introduction conclusion, you know, starting and ending in little parts as you move through your presentation where you're doing the same technique. You can use videos, you can use graphics how you want to, you know, sprinkle those throughout to keep things moving so it's not just your voice going on in the same way for twenty minutes. And now that's something I put into my presentation and I talked about the fact that I got that question and how on Earth did I miss that? You know, however, I did. I miss that and it's great. It comes to the fact of and you set it early on and hopefully folks in the audience here don't don't take it for granted. But if you're telling a story, all great stories have a beginning, a middle and end, or a beginning, another step, a struggle or resolute whatever the arc of that story is. And that presenter who I worked with, he would always say that. He goes you're what's the story? If you're so you have your beginning and you have your end. How do we get there and how do we keep people engaged with a story? And there has to be some maybe struggle, there has to be some resolution, there has to be either some visual some excitement that you're excited about, or else it's a boring walk for forty five minutes and nobody wants to go on a boring walk for forty five minutes. So when you start thinking of it that way, and I'm I am a storyteller, I think that, as you said earlier, it's a great leadership skill. But we have to remember that even in those presentations, what are we want them to do with this information when they leave? If it's just entertainment, okay, well then that's what I want. But most of the time we're giving these presentations or meetings because there's a purpose and we want our team to leave and do things. And if we don't understand that, they're definitely not going to grab it. And if you don't understand it and communicate it, you're leaving them to do something that you should be doing. And you know, when you were talking about kind of things to do, to get away with, you know nervousness, to try to push that to the side and to give presentations where you feel a little less nervous getting up there. You it talked about takeaways, or maybe I'd made that note, but talk about take what do you want them to do? What do you want them to take away? And that's another great way to be a little less nervous if you have really consolidated. You know, here's my update I'm giving at the meeting and here are the three things that I want you to know and leave with today. Right. So, when I am finished today, I want you to leave with these three things and if you have any questions at all aboutt these three things, will address that, you know, as...

I move through or when I'm finished. But just narrowing it down, because if you're the one putting the information out, you're going to be able to talk about those three things right off the top of your head, even yeah, you haven't practiced enough those three things. You know, your audience doesn't necessarily know those things. So you're really getting that knowledge there. And then when you finish you can kind of bookend it a little and say, you know, when I started, I'd let you know we were going to you were going to leave with these three things. So right now I want to show you're going to leave with these three things and this is what you need to do with those and right you know, ask me any questions about those three things and that way you've you know, the kind of say you've told them and then you told them what you're going to tell them, then you repeat it again, but it's it's not kind of pounding the table with it, it's just embedding that information, because people are not coming to it with the same information you have. Yes, then they're also not coming to yes, and I think that's a key is remember you know the information, they don't. So we have to run that balance of making sure we're not assuming and I think there is a danger. I love your opinion on it. I feel sometimes we don't want to communicate in that tactical way or very specific way because people almost feel, well, they're adults, they should be understand this. Or if I start talking like that, it could come across as condescending when in reality that's what everyone needs. Well, I I kind of think what is showing your audience more respect than being really clear about exactly what you exactly the information you want to give them, and I think that, you know, we talk about knowing your audience and creating that kind of connection between you and your audience. I kind of see that that it's the opposite of being condescending. I think that's really showing immense respect for your audience to have taken the time before and you're doing the work for them. You have taken the time before you get up in front of them to consolidate it, to make it really, really clear, so that there's no muddle thinking. It's super clear. You've told them, you're showing them. They leave with what they need. I think that is, you know, so respectful of people's time. They're not there to do all that work. You're there to to the work and then prested it. So I don't see it. I mean, I have not experienced a danger in that with the way that I've done things are seen things I can't, you know, think of that as being condescending. I really think it's no work full and I agree. I've gotten pushback from people when I'm saying no, and to your point, I'd be saying no, absolutely not. They don't know this, so you have to explain it to them. You're thinking that they're on the same level as you. So, granted, if it's on the same level of you and we're equals and they work in the same department and we know our job and you start telling me how to do something I already know, okay, then I can say, well, why are you doing that? But you're mid to your point is they don't know anything about your department or they have a high level understanding of what they don't understand the daytoday, the nuts and bolts, how you got there. That's why you're here to communicate it to them, so presenting in it a way that's digestible to them. I to your point is I think it's worse. It is it's almost counterintuitive. It's condescending if I talk in a language that's way over your head, using our code words in our department, and everyone's going, I had no idea what the hell this is, and versus someone mapping it out very clearly and they take in that information, they go, Oh my God, thank you so much, very clear, got what I need. Off We go and everyone's happy. So you know, I think sometimes to your point is we misunderstand it, we look at it as I agree, I think, with the way you phrase it. Is it the utmost respect, because I'm respecting your time, I'm respecting your viewpoint, where you came from to this meeting, and I'm doing it in a way that everybody wins, versus me feeling, Oh look, how smart I am right, and it's you know, like you've said before, it should be a conversation. Really should be a conversation, even if you are doing the most of the talking during it. It should be a conversation. So we don't have to leave this up to chance. You know, if these are saying one, two, three, I'm bringing this in ask a question. You know, does anyone know what my team does in relation to x? Some of you may have some idea and I want to be sure that you know exactly and maybe even joke about some of it. Do you think that we're doing this or maybe you think we're doing that? Maybe there's some fun graphics you can do to kind of anticipate that kind of idea of a challenge that this might be condescending in some way to you know, just just I love it head on. I think that so...

...great. I think everyone here to ask somebody the question of because it levels sets the room as well, because you may think they misunderstand you about x, when in reality it's why? But if all you're going to do is talk about x, they go well, see, this is why I didn't know. I don't like that department. I think that's such a great tip and strategy is to somewhere in the beginning, even before maybe you present, let me ask you a question. What are what are you? What are you wanting out of this meeting? For me, that's another great question. You know, what are you looking for? I have some information here that I'd like to share. What are things that you want? I do that a lot of times in workshops. I'll have a big one of those big white pads and I'll say, well, if I'm at a conference in there's four or five other workshops going on, I'm like, why are you in mine, like there's five or six other people here? What are you looking for? What questions are you looking for? Me Answer to your point, I say I I'll throw these slides away. I'd rather talk about what you want to talk about, and we've had better conversations that way. But it breaks down the barrier where all of a sudden the audience really does feel I'm there for them versus there there for me. It's the reverse. And how awesome is it to give them the the power and the impact to have a say and what they're going to be learning, with the level at which they're going to be learning, I mean in the best most of all, possible worlds where you could send out surveys, you could know where everybody is, you could know everything. That doesn't often happen. But even using, say, a white board or using you know, I I happen to love flip charts. They're very old school, but I'll have them, because then you are creating something together. Yeah, and you're all in it together. It's not you with your slides and I'm very didactic and I know everything and I am going to instruct you. You're creating it together and I love that. So I love the idea of you asking, you know, what do you want to come away with today? Right when you start crossing it all, learn about yeah, start crossing it off, and said, okay, well, we got laway's crossing over here. Anybody? All of a sudden they see that progress of this is an interactive workshop. We're trying to figure things out. I have my viewpoint. I'll ask and even if they're hesitant, you know, there are, as you said, there are skills, more advanced skills, where I'll just go. Please don't make me point, because I will. I will point out. People make you in and they laugh and then all of a sudden people will start having conversations and even doing that as the room fills up, right when somebody start coming in, you start having conversation right away. I always find the ten minutes before your time is the best time to break down batries because there's only two or three people and they'll talk to you. Then people walk in and go, Oh, I guess we talked to this before and then all of a sudden you have it. But I think that's even eat for meetings. To your point goes back to the zoom meetings and I think the way, you know, all this wraps around is I look at your background, I'm like, Oh, what's that book on the back there? And now we start having conversations before the meetings and then as other people come in, they join in and they realize that, well, we don't all have to be silent like school teachers, you know, and be reformal. And I think you you you have much more rich conversations you do, and you've made it a conversation. And you know, Glenn, it's much like the skills we were talking about at the beginning of kind of being a good leader with your team. You know it really you can extrapolate it to speaking, you know, at a conference or speaking at a workshop or presentation. You have shown that you are open to the curiosity of the people who are in that audience who have chosen to spend their time with you, that you respect that and that you want to make it worth their while, and that, to me makes your audience incredibly receptive and they want to be a part of it. And as a speaker, that's what you want. You don't want to be sitting up there pointing at slides with everybody just kind of staring at you. It's the worst. First that's the worst. That's that is the worst set. Think you know, I think everyone, and I think this is a great place to sort of wind down. The conversation is all of this. You're always speaking, right. I think people make the mistake of well, that's when I'm a speaker on stage or I can't speak on stage, but yet you're having conversations with people throughout your day. It's we put the pressure on. This is an important conversation where I'm presenting to my ball, but if I asked somebody about a sports team they love, they have no problem talking for an hour about and get very passionate and having skills and arguments and data to prove why their team is better than my team. I said, well, see, you're doing that here, you can do it over here. It's just you haven't made that connection or found the passion or found the way to communicate the data...

...for that in the same manner that you have for your football team or whatever is going to be. Yeah, people can be so comfortable talking about things that they love and they get that energy and they're passionate about it and then you tell them, oh, but you're going to talk in this meeting about what your group is doing and all of a sudden the nerves, you know, coming back. It's the same thing and we are always communicating, always and it's not, you know, even just the speaking. It's the way you walk into a room, it's the way you leave a room, it's the way you walk up to you know, if you're giving someone a handshake or having eye contact or not having eye contact, whatever it is, every single part of kind of being in the presence of someone else, you are communicating with some touch point there. Yes, so, you know, even for people who may be nervous getting up, just think about you know, maybe you're not so nervous walking into that room if you see all your friends in there and your team in there and they're supporting you. So kind of take that with you, take that support with you. They you've already kind of crossed off part of it even just by walking in the room. You've crossed off part of that presentation even by just standing up there. So, you know, let that give you a little confidence to yeah, I love this, I could talk to you for hours. Thek is, this is great fun stuff. Is it's very good and I think for the audience who listens to the show they need a lot of that because even if they're veteran people who are managers or been leaders, it's still one of the hardest things that they struggle with is am I talking too much, you're not enough, and my how do I get my point across? Why do I wind my constantly repeating myself? So I think a lot of the content that we talked about today is going to give them some tools and strategies and tips for them to just go back and look at what they're currently doing or the next time they have a meeting, to say, we'll wait a minute. Did I practice this? Am I clear on my points. You know, should I ask them? What do you guys want out of this me? You know, so many different tips this this was very, very jam packed and I appreciate that. So it's been fun. Good. So now is the time, we say at the end, really show. I always give five, four or five questions. I call them the one so it's the one thing that pops into your head. So first off, you said you had fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old. Yes, right, so let's there. They're fascinating. Age really is, isn't it? They are. So yeah, you though, looking back at yourself at that age and now where you are today, what's the one thing that you could say is still consistent? It was there when I was sixteen, it's still here now. And then the second piece is, what's the one thing that that sixteen year old wouldn't believe if they could see me now? Oh Wow, the one thing that is consistent is that I don't ever like being told what to do. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. That has not changed. That's a great one. And what would my sixteen year old self be surprised at? Well, my sixteen year old self would probably be very surprised that I currently live in Denver, Colorado with my family. I am a city girl. My dream was always to live in Manhattan, which I did for many, many years. I work there, I lived there, started my family there, got married there and then we had an opportunity to move out to Denver, and so now I live in Denver, Colorado and I see the mountains everywhere and we go hiking and skiing and all these things that I never really thought would be a huge part of my life. So I think she'd be surprised at that. Yeah, I just we were just in Manhattan over this past weekend and getting back there. Yeah, I lived there for a long time as well, so it was nice to get back. Okay, what's one thing that you are reading, watching listening to that is inspiring you that you would recommend to the audience? Well, I am currently reading Daniel Pink's new book. He is a lawyer and a writer and comes out with all sorts of interesting kind of business e books, but his new book is called the power of regret and he interviewed something like Fifteenzero people about their regrets and then he grouped them into different categories and it is incredible. We all have regret. We all have some grief around chances that we've missed the path, not taken, things like that, and he just talks about...

...the fact that, you know, regrets are not bad. You need to have some regret. You can't kind of say oh no, regrets, because then you haven't really used that regret to move yourself forward in life. So I'm finding it absolutely fascinating. I will. That's great. I that's I love him. I shot he's a great, great author. I'll will link it it. Will link it in the show notes as well. Okay, where's one place that you would like the travel but you've never been there yet? I really want to go to New Zealand. I have wanted to go there and do the kind of Australia, New Zealand and Fiji trip and I really want to do that. So that's on my list. All right. So tied in with that, as someone who travels and has been you know, have you been there? No, I have not. None. That's on mine. But for you, what's one thing that you need when you travel? What's the one thing you can't travel without? Oh Wow, that's an that is an excellent question, which I'm saying because I have to think about for a minute. What do I need that I can't travel without? Um, I need books. I need some sort of books when I travel. I think that, you know, you go through really busy days and I like to kind of chill out at the end of the night and I need to either have my kindle or some sort of book to kind of going to ask center myself. Are you always going to ask are you a kindle or need a real book? I like the real books, although I use I really prefer the real books that I do use the kindle just for convenience. You know, that immediate gratification of getting the book and then being able to travel with it being lighter. Yeah, that's that's pretty much the way I look at it. I'll try to bring one book with me, a physical one, but then sometimes they're really thick and then they're heavy and easier. I can have multiple books on my on my IPAD. Got It. You got to bring one book, though, because what you can a lord the IPAD goes. You got a house. Have One. There's there's enough for the small ones. Are Middle Size one right, great, do that. Okay, so last question. We talked about a lot of things and it has been a phenomenal conversation. If you thought to yourself and you said, man, out of all things we talked about, if the audience got one thing out of this conversation, what would be the one thing you hope they would take away? I would want them to take away the idea that this stuff is doable, it's manageable and it can enhance your life. And so, in order to do that, I'd love for them to take away the idea of just be bold, be creative and take some chances in your communication. HMM, love that. That is a great way to end. So thank you so much. So tell the audience how they can connect with you. Where do you hang out online? Where's the best way to reach out to them in case they'd like to chat with you and connect where? I would love to continue the conversation. You can find me through my website, which is Tribecca Blue Consulting. It's my old neighborhood New York where I used to live. You can reach me directly on there. There's form and I'm also on Linkedin at Lorie Gilbertson. That is my main social media. Great. Okay, so please do connect. I think it's great. A lot of the guests have had people reach out to them to have continue the conversation. So please do reach out. So thank you so much. This has been magnificent. I can't wait to go back through this again so I can take notes. I'm definitely going to have my team listen to this. This has been really a beneficial conversation. So I thank you so much. So, audience, you know how we all end here. Please, if you found value in our conversation to day, I know there's someone in your network that could benefit from this conversation. So please share this out with them. Send it out to them, get them to connect, because we're found everywhere. Wherever you listen to your podcast, be at apple or or Android, wherever you can find us, or you can go over to the Youtube Channel and watch some of the video highlights of this. But again, please share this out. Really important. Everybody's conversation skills can be improved and it really does benefit your life. I know there's a lot of places for you to consume content with the fact that you spend some time with Laur me means the world to me and as I say at the end of every episode, you're in charge, but when you get that feeling of now what? Now, what do I do? Well, we're here every single week with great conversations and guests like Lori today to give you some tactical tips to help you become the leader that you're looking to be. So thanks so much. Look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Lori, absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you, Glen.

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