"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch
"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch

Episode 109 · 1 year ago

Building a Sales Organization that Thrives with Ryann Dowdy

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Generating Consistent Sales. 

It is a key point of stress for every company, no matter this size. 

Hiring salespeople, creating a thriving pipeline, connecting sales to marketing, all of these points and many others are key to a company's success. 

But what if your company is not consistent? What if someone could help your company or sales team become the revenue generator you dream of. 

In this episode, Ryann Dowdy, a sales and business coach, shares her strategies she employs when helping companies get on track to achieve their goals. 

Funny, effective and always tactical, Ryann will help you take away key points to inspect your team's processes and effectiveness.

Enjoy it and make sure you have your notes handy. 

Don't forget to subscribe and share this episode. 

About Ryann Dowdy

Sales and Business Coach Ryann Dowdy helps high-achieving women leave their 9-5 and build a 6-figure business by teaching them how to master sales conversations and the mindset work required to make a total identity shift.

Author of her new book "The 100K Sales Method" https://100ksalesbook.com/

Before starting her own business, Ryann spent 15 years in the Corporate world building multi-million dollar sales organizations for start-ups in the marketing space. From sales rep and individual contributor to Director of Sales – Ryann has mentored, managed, and trained thousands of sales reps.

Ryann’s coaching business, Uncensored Consulting, has helped hundreds of women get their first clients, leave their day jobs, and take back control of their lives. By teaching tried and true sales strategies that aren’t dependent on social media or trendy tactics, Ryann focuses on the art of building relationship and human to human connection.

Connect with Ryann: 

https://www.socialsellersacademy.com/

About Glenn Pasch:

"Everyone finds themselves in charge at some point in their lives. Yet many of us lack the skills to generate consistent results. My goal is to help you learn the skills to adapt and grow in your personal and business life.”

Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, a full service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses create and deliver customers raving, recommending & returning for more. He is author of 2 books including "The Power of Connected Marketing" and has spoken and educated audiences throughout the US and internationally.

Let’s Connect:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennpasch/

Personal Website http://glennpasch.com/

Company website: https://pcgdigital.com/

Support for this episode comes from PCG digital. It is anywhere from difficult to impossible to manage every aspect of the changing digital landscape. Rather than trying to do it yourself, why not leave it to an award winning team of Digital Marketing Specialists who have mastered at all? Connect to your message with more potential customers with PCG digital. Go to PCG digitalcom for more information. Sales. It is the number one struggle that most companies have. Even when you're successful, it's the fear of losing that momentum. And there's a lot of different aspects of sales that companies stress about, from Lee Generation to marketing, to finding the right talent, developing that talent, holding them accountable, growing, scaling, finding the right leaders. We could go on and on and on, and I know I've thought about this and helped companies, as well as my own company, overcome some of these struggles. Well, today I'm so excited that we have Ryan Dowdy joining us today. Her company helps organizations from start up to midsize grow and develop a sales organization that thrives. She brings her expertise from years of being on corporate sales teams and leading those sales teams and realizing that she has an expertise to help new organizations get off on the right path. So I'm really excited. We cover a lot of different topics today and her passion just comes through. Very excited for you to meet her. So let's dive into today's episode of you're in charge conversations that spark change with Ryan Dowdy. Okay, Ryan, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited because this, this topic is near and dear to my heart as a business owner and it is probably one of the most frustrating topics or things that I have to deal with over my career, and that is sales and sales teams and all of the above. I wish I had a team of people that were consistent, and it just never seems to happen. So I'm going to lean on you to give us some tactical advice for those people who are listening who are leading teams or owners who are having teams in they're struggling. So let's dive into that. What when I say, as an owner, I'm frustrated by sales, what questions are you asking me or what do you think's going on or what you know? What do you see out there that could be causing my frustration? Yeah, I'm a salesperson by nature, Lens. So the first question. You say I'm frustrated by sales. My response is, tell me more about that, because everybody goes in a different direction. Right. Some people are frustrated because sales are inconsistent, right, because they have a leadgen problem. Some people are frustrated because, you know, their people aren't doing what they're supposed to do all day. Some people are frustrated because they can't recruit. So it's it's all of the above these days, and so it's really drilling down into what's the core part of the problem with sales, because there are times we're frustrated with sales, with it's just us like without right. Right, is where I was sprust okay, so then let's let's unpack those because those those topics you just mentioned, at any moment in time over the last twelve, thirteen years of running this company, I have had frustrations with each of those. So let's talk about first will put lead generation to a side. Let's talk on the talent...

...recruiting talent or sales people. Where are we getting it wrong? Is it our expectations? Are we asking the wrong questions? Do we want finished products? I know it's that sort of probably deal all of the above. But when we're out looking for talent, where are we screwing it up? Yeah, a couple of a couple of different places. One I do think that they're as this focus gland, that if we could just get experience sales people there will be up and running faster, and the data actually tells us that that's not necessarily true. The on ormp time for an experience person versus a new person's only probably about two to three months faster if you have somebody with more experience. So I think it's I always say the first thing that we're hiring for is a fit with the mission and the vision and the values of the company, because if we don't align in the mission mission values of the company, they can't sell yourself right, because you're looking at work with clients who match your mission, vision values. So your salespeople have to first match your mission and vision and values. And what I see a lot of companies do you glad as they're looking for who can get me an Roi the fastest, meaning the most experience, already has contacts in the industry, you know, has maybe sold something similar to what I sell. You know, already speaks the language. Those types of questions are coming up, and so that's what they're looking for and they forget that piece of like do they believe in your product? Like, do they fit them right? Is there a values alignment in which you both find important? So the first thing is like not forgetting that mission, vision and values are the most important part of of the recruiting process, of being really clear. This is what we stand for as a company, because it get if that's not aligned, it doesn't matter how talented they are, how much experience they have. You know, it's not going to work. And I know that's fluffy and I know that's a very like millennial answer, but it's the truth and and I don't think that is I actually think you're right. I look back now as I'm listening to you, the the people who have been successful have aligned with that or we were more clear or maybe we were more patient. So so with that then it's so I know people who are leading teams or owners who are sitting here listening to this would say then okay. So then what question should I be asking in the interview to see if there is an alignment with what I'm looking for versus all of those other things you said? They're in the industry, they're familiar with products, they've sold it before. What are the questions I should be asking in my interview? Yeah, so, I mean it's going to be different every single time because it depends upon your values. Right. So, like one of our core values is a company and social sellars. A Academy is human to human connection, right, like that's really important to us. That's how we sell. And so, like asking that question, like you have to spend, you know, the next you've just been eight hours a day in conversation with people, right. Is that energizing? Is that terrifying? Is that like what do you you know what I say that the next eight hours you were going to spend in conversation with other human beings. What comes up for you, right, because that's one of our values, and asking them they deal with how do you how does it work? You know, you come across somebody who you have differing values with, right, if different opinions, how do you handle that? Because, again, I'm looking for somebody who can do that with compassion. I'm looking for somebody who could do that through connection, not let me shove my opinions down your throat. Right to me, that's right action. So it's taking whatever your core values are as a company, Glen, and then pulling apart. What questions do I need to ask to see how they feel about this? Right? So, again, one of our core values is family. You know, I my children were literally the reason why I started my business. I left a very successful corporate career because I wanted to be in control of my time so I could spend more time with my kids. So asking them about the...

...relationship with their family and all those types of things, because if family is not a priority for them, they're not going to line with our values and they're not going to line with our clients. So it's right. I'll use and asking questions around those things and how they handle those types of situations. I think it's probably the best place to do yeah, see, I like that because it also forces you, or the person who's asking the questions, to be very clear about expectations of what you should be doing. To your point, is this a facetoface? I get in a Clin know we're getting post covid right, and where people are going to talk to people, or it's in a facetoface, meaning retail, where customers are coming in and we're selling that way, versus someone who is over the phone, slash email, video chatter or combination thereof. I like that question of the next eight hours or forty hours of your week. You're going to be reaching out to have conversations, to have and part of that is also, I would assume, how do you deal with the frustration of not connecting with someone? You know? I'm making phone calls, I'm sending emails and I just can't get past the gatekeeper to even have a conversation. How how do I deal with that frustration as well? Right? Yeah, I mean all of those things I think are super important and, like said, it's just outlining your values and then mapping out like what questions you need to be asking during your interview process. I also like we encourage all of our clients, Glen, to include their values and their mission on their job description. HMM, that's not going to totally screen out everybody, because I've learned a lot of people just don't read job descriptions. Yes, trust me, I've had that too. But again, you know, for us, like one of our big ones, is growth mindset, you know. So it's like, what was the last book that you read? Personal Development Book that you read? Right, I don't remember. Means that you can't work here. HMM. See, I think what I'm hearing is is is sometimes, when we're in sales, and I'd like your opinion on this now, is sometimes we we start looking for a salesperson or a new employee when it's too late, meaning that someone laughs, something's drastic. So we start panicking and we don't give ourselves enough time to be thoughtful in the interview process. We're really screen people or write a great job description to be able to say this is what we're looking for and be willing to say no, you can't work here, versus I just need a body. Let me throw it at that. That never works. So do you see that a lot with clients who are reaching out to you that they're waiting too long to hire or where they should be maybe looking always to add someone to their team, versus this panic hiring process, especially now the it's crazy town right now. Recruiting in general right there are more opportunities than there are candidates and the best people you are plucking out of other rules, right, right, it's not, you know. So it's crazy time out. But yeah, I mean we always say, like my business partners have like always be recruited, right, like, as a business owner, you go from my closing right, like the old school abies, and then once you have a team, then it's always be recruiting. Right. You have to be a solid, you know, three to six months ahead of your needs, because of the pipeline, because of training, because of the amount of time it takes to get somebody up and running. I think that's also a really big challenge, Glenn, that people have you kind of the initial chat question you asked me was I'm frustrated with sales. Most people are frustrated with sales. On like day sixty two of their salesperson, the job hasn't closed like four deals and then, right, sales person sucks. Meanwhile, the data tells us that it's now between like nine and twelve months. Is...

...the time frame of which you can expect your salesperson to be one hundred percent on board it and on remt. It doesn't mean that they're not going to sell anything for the first nine months. Right. It can take nine to twelve months to really get somebody in, get them, you know, trained, get them have enough relationships, have a big enough pipeline, have had enough touch points, have built enough of a runway to be producing at the rate that you expect them to. So I think a lot of times our sales frustration comes from lack of patients and it always goes back glountil. We wait. We waited too long to hire right serious person producing in que but we waited until the end of q four to hire them. And so hiring them in the beginning of q three, knowing that, you know, I really need them producing by q one. Yeah, so, so that's interesting because I've worked. I wrote an article about this just recently about one not marketing. You know, marketing that you want somebody to work through marketing your company as a place to work as hard as you're marketing your products. Right. Do you have testimonials from your employees saying, Hey, this is a great place to work. Look at this growth mindset. Bote to that point. What I don't see is people really reverse engineering to your point. How long it takes right. So if you say that, even if you set on the outside side, if I could get a salesperson up to say, thirty percent productivity and three months or four months, right. So then you're going to say, well then that's part training. Will then how long did they it? Do I have initial training before I even turn them loose? Well, that's a month. Okay. Well then, how long does it take me to actually find good candidates and advertise? Now all of a sudden you're saying, if I need somebody to be a thirty percent productivity after three months, I got to start looking for someone maybe six months. And think to your point, because I've mapped out how long it's going to on board someone to dedicate the training to so that they could potentially start producing, as you said, building up their pipeline, getting comfortable with the products, getting comfortable with the culture and the team and all the rest of that. We just very rarely see it. So so let's talk about this. I think a good place to pivot, because I'd love to hear your your view on this. On I always find that on boarding, right, that initial new hire type of on boarding, most companies do a pretty good job right, pretty decent, but then people are cut loose and we're expecting productivity, but we're not really there. Is it doesn't seem like a structured either training or check in or coaching mentality. It's while I did my two weeks on boarding, here's your products, here's your computer, here's your you know, crm and Co Sell D. is that something most companies really are missing or missing the importance of that ongoing coaching and development? Absolutely absolutely. You like teed that up perfectly. I'm like, you want to sell it. I saw glad because you're pretty good at it. But a hundred percent like that is actually what happens and it's and it's worse when you're an entrepreneur. Right the more established company is, at least have a little bit more set up. But, like, you're lucky at that two week training windows in place. But so first it's absolutely that we express bring somebody on and we expect them to be productive and we expect them to produce at a certain level without giving them the tools to do so. And we as a lot of sports analogies around here, but I always use like I use professional athletes right at lately I've been using the Tom Brady example if he went from, you know, from New England to Tampa Bay, right, and like just because he's theoretically the greatest of all time, and I'm from Kansas City and I'm not a fan, but he makes it really it's a really good point here in all of this that like it wasn't just like hey, Tom, you're really good at football. Can you just come here and throw a ball and like here's the playbooks, figure it out. Right. Well, see on Sunday,...

...like that's not that's not how it went right. I mean, I wasn't there, but I can make some assumptions. This is not how it went right. You know, he's watching Game Tame, he has coaches, he has all kinds of coaches and all kinds of support. Right, so, right, what professional level activity out of our people? But we're not giving them professional level coaching, training and supports. Me Happen? No, and I think that to me that I like that analogy. I've used it before as well. As we don't it's the word we are always missing is development. Right, we call it training, but really it's training and development, but we don't really develop anyone, which is to your point. You know, we were taught I was listening to someone on Sports Radio and they're talking about rookie quarterbacks and they say I wait till the middle of their second year to really make a decision on what we see because everything is changing, it's moving fast, completely different environment, but that every day they play. These are the professionals, the one percent of the one percent of the one percent, and they have meetings where they breakdown film, look at what they did. How are they doing? They're going out and practicing this over and over and over again just for that game on Sunday or if it's basketball, you know you're eighty two game schedule. It's amazing. But to your point is we expect part because we're busy and we don't build it into the structure or system. Where when are you going over that game tape with your salesperson? When are you listening in on phone call? And I think it's two fold. One, it's the beginning. You know, when you're new, we don't pay attention or we think Oh, Ryan selling, so I don't have to look at all. And actually we're missing out on the potential you have or the act that you're just going to start getting less and less productive because no one's paying attention. kind of percent. I think all of those things happen inside of organizations big and small, you know, like I seen it in teeny tiny companies with their first two sales people, and I've seen it happen with, you know, four five hundred salesperson organizations across the board that, yeah, we on boarded them, they're really great. And then or or glad we do this. We mistake product training for sales training. Okay, go into that, because I think I know where you're going, but I want to make sure the audience understands the differentiation between that, because most of the time I think they think it's one in the same. Right. So I spent a lot of my career selling digital marketing services and you know, facebook ads, search engine optimization, search engine marketing, etc. Some things that have the things that change a lot, right, like spelling face, because it's like moving target. Right. So we there were product updates all of the time and when the product of dates would roll out, right, we have trainings as a team and we tell them about the product up dates. HMM, like how does this product update impact your sales process? Right, so we're focusing on here's the product ors how the product is changing here, the new things it can do. But then we don't take it one way of you know, once it forwards. Okay, this is what this means in our sales conversations. This is a really crazy opportunity. This is a brand new segments of people we can now support because the product does this right. So we're not tying the two things together. Were relying on our sales people to figure out how to connect those thoughts on their own. And you know, I'd say eighty percent of a wall, that you're the best of the AST rates the eighty twenty role right, the top twenty percent, they're going to get it anyway, right as they're going to get it with or without the product up dates, because they're damn good at their job and they're good at relationships or whatever I'm talking about. The other eighty percent then meet to connect the dots for them. How does this impact the sales process? Right, that, that and and and I think there's another piece. When you're talking about sales training, your right, I don't think there's enough of how do you start a conversation? How do you real productively listen?...

How do you overcome objections or respond accordingly. Those are technical skills that we just assume that, oh, you have a great personality, you'll figure it out, versus really listening in on them, that it goes back to you what you talked about in listening to tape, listening to phone calls, sitting with them to say you you sort of cut that person off or you didn't really answer their question or you know. So it's not it's your right. How does the product conversation go? But there's a whole another wrapper around this of technical skills that I think a lot of people just assume that if you applied to a salesperson's job, you should already know how to do this. Right. Oh yeah, absolutely, or we trained in one area of the sales process. Glad. I do see that. Like we've trained a lot on overcoming objections. Right, overcoming objections, overcoming objections, overcoming objections, but we forget like if we just did a better discovery we get less objections. Right, right, our pitch was a little bit more polished, we would get fewer objections. So I do see that where people like but I am training my team ran we do. We will play on objections every Friday and I'm like, what a press the process right. Well, I used to one. I used to when I used to teach. I used to say, if you don't start your conversation or open your conversation correctly, you're never going to get to the objections right. They're just going to hang up the phone or they're going to walk away or they're going to say thank you very much, that's okay, I don't need any help. And you're going, yeah, but I have a great pitch. I know how to come over overcome objections. So so okay, Linnen, let's let's pivot to that. Then when you're and I know again it this will depend on the organization and what you were saying before in terms of mission and your values. But are there, in your experience, are there two or three qualities that a good salesperson must possess or else they're just going to struggle? Yes, one, they have to like people. Like people. That's so funny you say that, because I every time I've asked that question, I'm not sure anybody has ever answered it that way. They've given me every other quality but that one. It's funny, God that that's the most obvious a like people, you know, because, hmm, and I know that that that you're like, well, Duh, Ryan. No, like there's no due anymore. It's like no, literally, do you like people? Like, do you feel like humans are like generally good, or it's like now, I don't really like people are. Now I prefer to do my own thing. I you know, whatever I think. They'll tell you what I think of people if you ask them. Yeah, have to like people. I think that that is so important, right. The second thing that I am looking for is a willingness to learn. I think that sales is a totally learnable skill, but it is one that changes all of the time as technology changes. Right, like I started my sales career, you know, back in two thousand and five, selling Radio Advertising in Orlando, Florida, when they're you know, need to like print the math quest directions to get where we wanted to go. Right, right. Process has changed and we have to be willing to change with it, or you're going to wind up, you know, with those people that are like we've always done it this way, right. So I think it's like the willingness to grow and learn and change like. That's, I think, so important for sales. They have to be willing to take feedback. They have to be willing to be coached right, assuming they get coached and trains. They need that. So I'm looking for some who likes people. I'm looking for somebody who was willing to learn and grow. And then, if I had to pick a third one, I'm always looking for I really like competitive people. I find that competitive people will motivate themselves. They don't need me to motivate them. They will compete...

...with themselves. And if I had a choice, like, I literally would only hire athletes. I don't think that's legal, but I would really do so if I had a choice, because I think that that that competitiveness, that willingness to learn, being okay with losing, that, you know, learning how to have difficult conversations. So much of that comes in sports. But if I had to boil that down to one word, is I want somebody who is competitive, even if it was, you know, themselves, small stuff like, okay, yesterday I made twenty calls, today I'm going to make twenty five. Right. Last month I closed eight deals. This month I'm going to close ten, because they have to have some of that self motivation that self competition. Right, I'm looking for a character trait like that's it, right, that competitive, self motivated driver factor on. They have to have that. Okay. So next level from that when you're building a team, I've heard people default to to your point. I want all those hyper competitive I'm looking for superstars. I want to staff for superstars. I've never run across a team where it's all superstars. I don't believe you can have all superstars on your team. That dynamic doesn't work. It almost becomes cut throat, where me, Oh, it becomes really too stressful. So when you're building teams and adding on, is it always just your same sort of checklist or you yeah, do you just put them through the same filter? But then once we put them through the training, people sort of fall into their well, you know, Ryan is going to pencil eight deals every single month. Maybe she'll get to nine, maybe she'll get the seven, but that's right. But then someone else is going to go there one month, or twelve, one month or seven one month, this one month that. How do you build a team in scale, a team, because that's also something that people really struggle with as their business grows. Yeah, great questions. So, I mean, I think the first part of the question is the and if you go for all drivers and competitors, you wind up, you know, with a cut throat environment. I think that's our job as leaders, right, like if it'd be environment has become through at cut throat, like there's something missing from a leadership perspective, right, them competing with themselves, not each other. Right, competing with yourselves, your goals, what you want. It's really about, like, managing people to their own personal standards, not each other. So that's how we find a bunch of drivers driving in the same direction without them trying to kill each other. Okay, step one of that step to you is is how do we how do we build a team? We have a rule of them is that everybody, for x, has their investment before we hire the next person, meaning if the base salary for this job is Fiftyzero, that person has to have generated two hundred thou in revenue before we hire the next month, and then that person has to do that before we hire the next one. So then we can we create enough space profitability wise to not need them all to do something specific to pay the bills. Right, we do this. I worked for this company that hired, you know, they got a bunch of funding and I hired like four hundred sales people across the country and then within like eighteen months we were a sales team of like two hundred and thirty. Right. It was because we took the cash and we dumped it into and then we didn't we didn't make sure each person was profitable before the next person came out board, and then we didn't have the cash for the people who were never profitable. Right. and not everybody hires going to be profitable. Some people are gonna have to fire, some people are gonna have to have to go. So people are going to be able to make it, and I think it's also a misconception. Glenn. Kind of a side note about sales is that we should always get it right. Right, you know, there's turnover, we're doing it wrong. It's again, it's normal, and I would rather get somebody out of there than keep him in and keep paying for them. You know. But if you're if so, let me, let me push back on that. And and somebody would say I can hear it because my brain went there from moment. Okay, going back to what you said, it takes nine to twelve months to get up to producing right. What if you're trying to scale faster? I mean you could probably hi hiring hundreds, right, but if you have the bandwidth or the ability to...

...say, well, I'm going to throw two or three people at it, under the same guidance of our training, be willing to pull the trigger and say one, if you're not doing the work that you're supposed to write that. That's the one thing. If you're not going to do it, then you can't be here. I'm willing to invest in coach because someone's going to say at Fiftyzero, if I have to wait a year for two Hundredzero, hiremn x salesperson will then I'm not growing at the pace that I want to as a company. Sure. So I want to clarify producing at the level you want them producing right, nine to twelve months. Our goal is that they for x within three to six months, like we should have them in a space for the Fox in three to six months. They ten x by the end of twelve like for us, that's the benchmark of fully on board. Of they've ten next they've generated five hundred thousand fiftyzero salary right I only need that like first forty percent. I you said I needed performing at forty percent, and that first three to six months. And the time frame for that is going to dependent upon the company. You know. Are they given leads? Are There in bound lyad's like? What do the leads look like? That almost always dictates how quickly they'll be up and running. Right, right, if they're getting warmer leads or conversations versus knocking on the door, coal calling that that I told that you know, we've built. They have people who have some context, versus they've got a start from scratch. Right, that's always going to take a little bit longer. Yeah, so, you know, for that person he wants to go faster. It's just being prepared from a cash perspective to be able to do that. You know, I guess right, your company and that the the size of your pockets. Can I hire three people knowing that, you know there is a chance that all three of them are not a fit, like I can I take that risk, right, and everybody's growth and scale plans are going to be based on that. And sometimes it is as much as we can turn the lead, you know, the lead flow engine on my business partner and her first bit or in her other business, she hired six sales people at the same time, but it was because they had they had really hold their ad strategy and they knew exactly how to tip that lever and so she needed that to she could ramp up. Yes, it's to support the people. So that was an it right, because didn't work out. But, you know, because the lead flow was there, they were able to figure that out quickly. So I would say it depends on how deep your pockets are, that is, to how quickly you want to do that. But I think what I like about what you're saying is is that you're having a benchmark or a scalability metric where you're saying, I need you to x, meaning that a if you're getting the four x at this sort of juncture, whatever Mile Post you throw it out there, that means okay, you're on the right path, your momentum's going and now you're sort of the hockey stick is going to go in your production. I can now focus and bring someone else in so that I'm always having someone and then hopefully I have a bunch of people who are ten Xing. How there, but I have that mile post versus you get frustrated at the beginning. You're not going to hire anybody. You don't have those metrics to measure. You're not, you know, investing in them to be successful. I think there's so many pieces to this that you just said in leads, quality of leads, seasonal whatever it's going on. It's easy to just say, Oh, the salesperson's horrible, that's a mismatch, versus having that guidance to say, yes, we're on the path and we're going there. Another let's let's talk structure of teams and we've seen. I've seen different styles work. What's your do you have a favorite setup of the team, meaning where one person, salesperson, may I'd work for you. Here's your database. Go generate conversations, go sell. There's been other companies that will have like appointment setters do the ground where and then I'll hand either a warm lead over to me or I'm going to go now deliver the presentation...

...or even stack someone on top of that where then the closer type of person comes in to really seal the deal. Again, all variations depending on your size pockets. But is there any one that works better or they all could work, they all could fail. What are your thoughts? I think they all could work and they all could fail, is the answer to that. But, you know, again, I think it breaks down like skill sets and developments. Right. So most of the people that we work with, like they will start, their first sales person will start and kind of that appointment center role, right, business, right, whatever you call it, and then grow into the closer role. I also think it depends on how much like account management the team has to do. So I grew up selling radio advertising. That's where my career started. We did it all when, like we found the lead, we started the lead, we close the business and then we did all the account management. Right, right, terrible structure. I do not recommend that one because there's no time to do the things that you need to do to fill your pipeline right. So I think that the reason that most sales organizations fail is an empty pipeline. So our priority has to be the pipeline. If somebody can generate a pipeline and close business, game on. That should be our business model. Right. If they you know, if we think, hey, if we had three people filling a pipeline for one closer, we could get a faster our live than like game on. Make that happen. So right, it's really understanding the lead flow. If you if you're running ads, like a lot of our clients are the running ads, if you don't need somebody to generate leads and you really just need somebody to qualify and close, I think that's that's one person. That doesn't need to be two people. Right, right, I think it depends. To me it all goes back to what is the lead flow, right, like what is the demand generation in the business? That's going to addictate the best sales process for you? Right. Yeah, we've played around with for our company. We've played around with the variety of styles and now we're sort of getting back to that idea of we've gotten burned a few times with salespeople who promised the world and just didn't want to do the work. That ultimately comes down to it. They didn't want to do the work. Maybe in their previous company they were fed, you know, or they were up in that higher closure and now we're saying, well, we also need you now to come back and do some of the qualification and they just couldn't go backwards to see the the movement forward. Now we sort of have a fewer few people that are coming in at a more that that that qualified level, and we're teaching them how to close. Like buil te up will get on the phone, will do the presentation, they'll hear it and then they can send the proposal out and they can close. You get it back in. But every day or every week they're lark. They're moving it a little further on their own, versus US trusting that you know how to do it, because going back to those mistakes, Oh, you were in the Industry, Oh, you sold this before. Oh, you know the lingo, and you know, we've been burned, and so I think we've gone back to slower growth to be that, like we just said, get them going and then let the hockey stick take take over once they're they're truly ready to do that, which has not always been easy for us because, you know, we have other things we're focusing on and we just out a great your sales first out sell and then all of a sudden we're frustrated when they're not selling. So okay, so let's talk about because you came from the marketing side. Yeah, and sales. I see a disconnect in in companies where sales and marketing, those two people, departments, however big it is, sometimes are at odds with each other. Marketing, saying, sales isn't,...

...you know, if somebody's questioning well, as the marketing effective, someone the I've heard, well, sales isn't closing the deals and then sales are going to turn around with the leads are giving me our horrible right and they're not working in tandem to to really break down what are what conversations are you having sales? What can we do better? So one, have you seen that? And number two is, what is your recommendation to get those two departments to work more in unison than adversaries? Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it a million times and it always just kind of fascinates me a little bit, like I don't understand like how we're on two different teams here, like I don't know how we got to that place where like it's US versus them. It should all be, you know, pulling in the same direction, right, and what I have seen to circumvent that Glen is it's a commission split. HMM, like my a company that we work with, their marketing people like they're actually there, adds people if they, if they're ads, generate a consult that closes, which it's all trackable. Right, then they get half the commission. In the sales person gets half the commission. So then it does a couple of things, right. It makes the sales people not depending on marketing because they get the full commission if they go generate their only it's right. So you get full commission if you generate your on lads, but if somebody's handing your leads to get half commission. But then it also has the marketing team has since skin in the game, right, like my compensation is tied to generating good leads. So I can't just be like well, it's your fault. It's like what do I need to do? And I also think that they need to be talking all the time. Like this idea that sales marketing talk kind of blows my mind, like I don't understand that. You know, I talked to my marketing person. I'm theoretically the head of sales in my company. Right, I talk to my marketing person all day, every day, right, like this is working, this isn't. What are your thoughts on this? How about this, like try this with this last email we got really great. You know, we schedule some appointments, but they work with the right people. Can we add in this, like it's a constant communication with us? All right. So to me that the fact that those two like, and I know this happens in big companies all the time when they they operate in silos. Yes, you're in the sales teams over here and on occasion and a quarterly meeting we're yelling at each other and I'm like, I don't know, this isn't just doesn't compute. So, but for me, the way that I've seen that work is, yeah, like tie their compensation to it and all of a sudden everybody is I like that. That idea of compensation. What we've done and I've recommended for my clients that I consult for from a marketing strategy department, would say have those meetings because as a marketer I want to know where the objections are or what questions are they struggling with, or what for us as an agency, what didn't they like about their other agency? Right why are they on our doorstep right now looking to change agencies? That then can say, Oh, can we build a campaign around that problem that Hey, do you have this problem too? We can solve that. But I would never know if I didn't respect the questions from the sale or the information to sales people are getting or where the salesperson thought someone was listening to say here's what's working, here's not what's working. To your point, we're talking to the wrong people. What could we do or you know? So that's I think it's a much more efficient way to have that collaboration to be moving that company forward, right from a visibility standpoint to closing deals. They have to work in Tanem it's it's frightening how often one hand doesn't know what the other one does. I mean I've seen sales teams that don't know what adds are running. They have no idea what's going on right. That's it's just crazy to me. Yeah, we I've seen that before and thin get most...

...of my clients. Then there were a little bit there. Less are so right. You know, it's there's a little bit more cohesive, but I've definitely seen it. As companies growth, they get divided, but again they all call on the same direction with their compensations. Time do it now. I like that. That's a good note. I'm writing down. I got my pencil here writing down. So, as I said, so let's talk about I want to pivot now to the leadership of the teams. We talked about salespeople. We've sort of talked about scaling and that seems like they're that's almost an above level at the CEO level or owner level. And we have our salespeople. We've talked about that marketing getting going. One of the biggest places where I see attention needs to be placed for a lot of companies are the people who are running teams right there, the sales managers, their team leaders, whatever word you want to call they're responsible to help a team become successful. So my question to start this out, because I think your expertise will help people solve some of this. Number One, do you see the wrong person in charge of the team as often as I do? Yes, why? Because we take our highest performing sales person and we make them a manager. HMM. And what's the down full of that? Well, a loss of production and be he most really high performing salespeople then are not excellent leaders. Yes, I've seen that as well. I've seen that as well I remember a salesperson wanted to be the leader of a team and within three days he said, I can't do this. I don't understand why they don't get it like I do, meaning that it's almost second nature to someone and they don't have that patience to really coach and develop. So, okay. So let me ask you then, if someone, one of your clients, said, okay, Ryan, I have a team attend people, I have to choose the next person to lead this team, how do I figure out who on this team should be in consideration for that role? How do I figure that one out? Well, first things, Ursus ask them, right, who actually wants to be in leadership, and then ask them why? HMM, because I have found that oftentimes it is because they want to get out of the grind of sales, which is not a good reason to hire them as a manage right, okay, man, yeah, I'd love to be a sales manager. I'm really tired of cold calling. Right like that, ain't it right? In fact, we should be weird about that person in general. So I think it's ask who wants to, you know, who actually wants the role and why? Step one, okay, and then so you're going to have you for the bubble up to the top out of those ten that want it. They want it for good reason. Right. And then I'm not looking just in sales performance. I'm looking at and this is actually advice I got from someone else who we talked about this. I forget the conversation, but I thought it was excellent, and so we started doing this. is now you like go to other people in the organization and say, or people you know, what are your thoughts about them? How? What of Your interactions like that been with them? Give them some more, don't encourage them to gossip. Right. But like right, elevating this person to a team leadership position. Is there anything that you would see to that you've seen that would support or, you know, deter from that? Right, because how they work with other people in the organization. Right. And because, again, top sales people are not notorious serving hits. Right. There rice selling it and you figure out how to fulfill this. I...

...don't care. I did my job, you do yours. Right, like that's a very stereotypical high performing salesperson's mentality. Right. So fail like, Oh no, that guy's jerk, like he you know, or this person is fantastic, you know, whatever the case may be. So I think it's fighting out from the other people that they work with day to day what their experiences are, because if they they have to, you know, if they can lead the internal stakeholders, they can lead their team. And then finally, it's looking at a productivity and production. You know what, what productivity are we going to lose by taking this person out of the field or cutting back on their time? It is that something we can afford to do right now? Right? That's kind of the steps that I would look at. is of the Ted who wants it and right, and then let's put everybody else in the organization or other stakeholders that what's your relationship with this person? What do you think? And then from there you're probably going to wind to put one or two candidates and then it's figuring out, you know, who actually has the skills to lead and coach and not just the skills to sell right. So so a couple things. I love those. Those those are really great points. And going back to the person who wants to stop doing their job, that's usually because they see that team leader or manager and it looks like that. That's an easier job. They always seem that they're at their guests, they always seem to be on the phone doing something. So I think if it's assuming that we have an environment where that leader, team leader, Sales Manager, is coaching and developing. Every day, they're working one on one or they're inspecting and they're having these they're involved. So someone realizes, well that being a manager is actually not easier, it's just different things to do. It doesn't know. It's a vacation from this. I think number two, which is a very important point when you're looking at that, is a fact, and I like that when you were saying, how do they work with other people on the team, because now they're going to be on someone else's team. Right now that leader is on, the general manager, the owner, somebody else. Now they have to be in that environment and responsible to someone above them. How are they going to handle that? Can they be at that table? Are they going to be a good team member? I think that's really great one. One additional one that always helped me was I always would ask so if you were running the team and you were asking me that question, saying who should I put in this position, I would say, let me ask you this, Ryan. If you're outst you're on vacation and the team needs something, needs an answer, needs help, who do they go to? That person probably is an above average performer because they get results. Number two, they're patient, they're willing to help. There they get along with people. Someone's going to their approachable like. All of those some sort of qualities that we would like in that leader. Sometimes that's a flag for me to go, Oh, that Peron. HMM, right, because they have those qualities where that I think good leaders need, as you said way back in the beginning, that good leaders have that mentality of listening and they're developing and they're patient without being soft. They want to get results, but they find that way and I but I really like, though, that ide I I forgot about the one about going to other people outside of the department and asking, because maybe there's a whole different side to somebody that you don't see. We we always bet our best spent forward for our direct manager. Right, HMM. And depending on the size of your organization and the environment of which you work in, that's going to depict things differently. But yeah, I mean there are plenty of people that I worked with in my you know, in person in office days, where who they were performance wise versus who they were around the watercooler was two different people. And do they want that person leading others? Okay, so...

...now your brain again here for the audience. Okay. So again we have a people who are listen to this all. A lot of them are in managerial roles, new or experience. Okay, now the next step is you've chosen that person. A person's going to ask you. Great, I have to take over a team. Now we can look at it both sides. It's a the team is performing well. The reason they're taking over is somebody got promoted up great or where we're placing because the team's not performing. More times and not. That's why somebody's there. somethings didn't happen. So what's your advice to a new manager taking over that team? Right, you just selected that person and they're going to take over this team. What should they do in their first thirty days to help them like? Where should their focus be? What should they do? What shouldn't they do? Walk me through some advice, maybe three, four, five things that someone should do in those first thirty days. First things first, have a oneonone, like it solid sixty minute one on one with everybody on the team. Figure out what motivates that person. When you say motivate, what is what do you mean by that? Like, what does that person want or need? Why are they going to be successful? Why are they going to go above and beyond? One of the things that I saw in all of my experience in the appropriate world it was always about what the company needed and wanted. Right, the company goal is this, we're behind stockholders. The board did it, it, it, it, it, right, like we were constantly driven by somebody outside of ourselves. And the sales people are like, yeah, I don't care about any of that. Like, right, my family to Disney world for Christmas this year. All right, right, right, right, right, right, right. It's really figuring out, like what, what is their driver that's going to get them to perform? What are they working for? What happens when they hit their goals? What do they want? Why are they doing a more a harder than average job for? Right, like what enquired they do? So it's figuring out full the motivators. Don't assume that you know anything. Don't assume that it's money. Don't assume that it's your it's what your motivates you and figure it out. That's kind of stuff one, because it's going to endear you to those people and then you're going to figure out how to manager people. That's going to tell you what they want. Okay. So, just on that point, there's two people taking over, one coming in from the outside, one who was promoted from within the team. You're still doing that under that guy's A. Don't assume that you know just because you were sitting next to the person doing the job. Yep, okay, right. So that's the first thing I would do is s figure that out. The second thing I would do is I would do real pipeline management without consequence. It's really hard, right, but like, sit down, tell me what is in your pipeline. Do not blow smoke, right. You tell me that you have two hundred thousand dollars worth of business closing in the next thirty days. If you do not being really honest with me, because again we're like, Oh shit, I a new boss, so now I got to tell him I got a inflight. Well, I haven't. This guy never got back to me, but I'm going to keep him in warm and I'm move this and right. As projections all of the time. They give me the projections as real as possible for the next ninety days. Okay, and be willing to hear that, like the pipeline is empty, because if, especially if you're replacing an underperforming manager, the pipeline is empty. Right. So let's figure out how I'm do the poploon is so we can figure out what we needed to fix it and then map out action plans for each rep based on their pipeline in their rules. Great, right. So I would give you an example. This morning I had one on one with someone on my team and we're rebuilding some databases which made some of store I don't client, and so, like my my plan for her was by the end of the week. This is what needs to be done. This is success for you. By the end of the...

...week. This needs to be identified. This needs to be done because come November first yours. Your action items are this, right. So it's, you know, figuring that out. The pad one is dry. Why is it dry? What are the action items? How are we going to fix it? Here's your you know, your ninety day plan to make that happen and then make sure that you are managing that ninety day plan menacally, right, like, okay, where we act? What's the activity? What's happening? What's going on? Where opportunities? I would even have some fun with it those first ninety days on the job. Create some spiffs, do some fun stuff, do bonuses, rally around, like really created massive action. And it can be simple stuffs, right, starbucks, gift cards if you have an in office team, right, bringing in lunch, you know, fifty spiffs that we give away in the PM stand up every day. You know there's fifty bucks to plan, because he went above and beyond for this. Like really make it fun and exciting and try to gain as much momentumus quickly as possible. Great, and then we'll find that your key players will probably rise to the top and the people who aren't going to hack, hack it are going to fall out. And then you'll figure out who you need to replace, because every time there's a regime change, somebody needs to be replaced because they probably needed to be replaced before the new manager took over anyway. Right. And so what I'm hearing is, and I love that, that first thirty days. Then I you know, it do you see? Then, if we start seeing momentum, people forget what it took in those ninety days to go and they start to get a like back off, or you really helping them to say okay, once you get it up to this level, then it's groundhogs day, like every day. We're doing this, every day. We're doing this every day. Were doing this. A minute we take our eye off the ball, we're going to start drifting. Is that where you see? Right? So, if we get them to the first three thousand and sixty ninety days and we see that momentum, what? Sure, it is your advice to them? Just keep doing what you're doing. Repeat, absolutely, wash rings, repeate. I love that. The science of sales right, but they say that the what is the science of sales? It's our numbers, it's our metrics, that's our KPI's right. What we just did over the last nine days was we built our pipeline right, and now we have to keep doing that. The good news is is that the seeds that we put in a thirty days ago, they're going to start to close and they're planting new see, it's right. We don't reepen. So in the same he is it. We just got to keep planting seats. It's right, it's we stopped. We start closing deals. Right, it has to keep going. Yes, and I think for everyone listening, don't don't let what Ryan just said like race by you and you're like Oh, sure, we do it. I would advise you to even help your team break it down to say hey, maybe half of your day is planting, right, and then the you know, a quarter of my day is moving somebody from demo to proposal, and then a quarter of my day is chasing proposals to get him in the door, whatever, whatever, however you're moving people through the stages of your of your funnel. But I think to your point is sometimes we because I was guilty of a very early on, as once I got enough opportunities that were in that, you know, pruning to harvesting stage, I stopped planting and then all of a sudden, once all of those either closed or died off, I looked around and said will oh man, I don't have anything left to move to the next. And I think that is an advice for all of you leading teams is really helping your team focus on planting, planting, planting, and then deal with it as we move along, but never stop planting those seeds, or else you will have no harvest down the road. There you go. So listen, I could chat with you. I love this. To said, these are great because you can't count fly we just go after three. I'm like, all right, so I did you give me a minute, but I love this. Let's go. Yeah, I know, but that's because,...

...one, you're passionate about it. Number two, I find what I find sales people who are really good or leaders of sales teams. Their brain breaks down those pieces like they know their Kpis. They know what lever to pull, they know where to look, they can pop between planting and closing. But it takes it takes time to develop those muscles. It takes time for you to step back and actually plan this out. And I think the most successful teams that I've ever run across, and for Mine, you know, at different times I can say that was really going well, that wasn't going well. It was the fact that everyone knew what they were supposed to be doing, everybody was rowing in the same direction and it was written out, so nobody could ever say, I didn't know. That's what you wanted right. Everything was documented. I find when running across groups that are not doing well, where's your process? Oh, we all know it. I'm like, Oh, here we go, it's not written down. So I think the more organized you can be, just like going back to what you were saying about the pro sports, they all have a playbook. It isn't just we're not. We're not drawing stuff up in the sand and winging it. This is here's our playbook, this is what we say, this is what we do, this is how we're successful. So I really love that and I just can tell from your energy you do that. So, before we jump into our questions, talk to me a little bit about your company and how it helps organizations. This is your time to Brag about your company a little bit and how a salesperson Collec so social sellars academy is very specifically designed for that early stage start up. We usually say somewhere between like one and, you know, twenty million. It's kind of that sweet spot where we help build and train sales teams that are leveraging social media as their primary sales tool and now they're only sales tool, their primary sales tools. So whether it's Linkedin Instagram, facebook. So we focus on three key things. We focus on systems. First, because of what you just said. Write no playbook. You know know what and we're dead in the water. Right. So first it's what are the systems and knowing that if you're in that one to five million dollar range, you probably don't have good ones, and there's nothing wrong with that. But there's a process because you're making money, we just have to draw it out of you, right. So the first thing we do is we really helped with the process setting up the sale systems and processes so someone can be successful on that. And then we focus on team. So we do keep a recruiting pipeline for our clients in the academy. And then the final step of what we do, Glenn, is mastery. We train live five days a week. We are we run drills every day, we will play every day. We do exercises every day. Today it was like the emotional reasons why people buy and we had everybody in the room go around. Why do people buy your stuff? And I'm like arn't, that's not it right, and another reason why people buy your stuff. or so we run drills five days a week. So It's a group coaching program but it is really very much designed to learn by both doing and listening. So we work with our clients and a container for twelve months because again, we know in the startup space that you don't have the time to do all of the stuff that Glenn and I just talked about. Nor did you really get into business to likely be a sales leader or a sales trainer for that matter. So we really hope to you know, we fill that gap for Sertis great see. Look, love that, folks. You really should be diving into this. I have some notes and I might be picking her Ryan's brain as well. So let's on that mode. How did they find you? How did they connect with you? And then we'll get into our fun question. So how did they connect with you? You know, online or where can they locate? And we'll put it on the show notes. But where? Where did they find the company itself? Sure, so. Our website is daily sales on demand for ceoscom. We also have a podcast by the same name. So daily sales on demand for CEOS. Right places to connect with us. I am an avid networker on Linkedin. So it's Ryan...

...with two ends. doughty. So you're welcome to connect with me there. Those are the best places to connect with us, right. We will load those up in the show notes. So everyone who's listened to these episodes always likes the fun little questions. I call them the one because, again, it's the first thing that POPs in your mind. Random questions, so don't overthink them. So let's dive into number one. So I always love to know what's the one food that you just cannot live without? Your goto thing, I don't care, health wise, whatever, got to have it. Sushi. Uh, you're the first person out of a hundred some episodes that have said Sushi, and I love Sushi myself. I do. If someone's like, you know, to guess, want of order, like to an order for do you want to go out? and was like so, she's always the first thing that comes to mind. I know, and so a lot of people go huh, I don't know, like I'm so happy when someone else goes yeah, let's do it, yes, let's go. Number two. Where in the world would you like to go and spend time that you have not visited yet? I want to go to I would actually do an entire European wine tour, for it's on my own map. For my forty birthday, I don't know what I'm going to do with my kids, but like I want to go to Europe for a month and go wineries and like really just focused on like what regions of you know, different parts of you're up produced really great grapes and right well, why? If you, if and when you do that? My brother has been to Italy multiple times. He knows a lot of the wineries, knows them as well, so he'll give you. He can map out a great tour for Italy for you, other places like France and other ones. We could probably connect you with someone. What are you currently listening to, reading watching? That is either that's inspiring you, getting you really pumped up and focused, that you'd like to share with the audience? Sure, so I just finished one buck and started another and, like the last week, I'm going to tell you about both of them. The magic of thinking big was actually a really excellent leadership reminder. Like the last couple of chapters of the book, He talks a lot about how to be seen as a leader. That I really love, and how to position ourselves inteers regardless of our roles, right. I mean you guys are are primarily managers or in manager level rules. But the magic of thinking big is just a really great one. Really good ideas on like training and managing your team. A ton of notes. So that's it's an excellent one. And then now I'm reading the Five Am Club, I think that's the name of it, and or thought about that. I've heard about that book. It's a lot of fun. I haven't got all the way into the weeds with it yet, but like, and I'm listening. I listened to books like when I walk or when I, you know, work out and stuff like that, and it's told as a story and which is kind of fun because a lot of you know professional and personal development books can be a little dry. But like it's told in a story and it's literally like voiced by different voices. So there's like a female character in the book and it's a female voice. So I've been really enjoying that. We're just digging into it, but it's very entertaining and a very easy listen. Great, great, we love that. Okay, if I gathered your close friends family in a room and ask them to describe you in one word. What would that one word you think they would share? Their word would likely be determined. Okay, I could see that you're going. HMM. Okay, well, the word that the word is like. I would describe it as persistence. Right. They would not, because they're not the behind the sea.

Get it out, behind the scene. She's gonna figure this out no matter what. So, okay, throw that down. Determined. Okay, La. Last question. We've talked about a lot of different things, really fascinating and great information. But if there was one thing you said, here's the one thing I want the listeners to get out of this or take away from our conversation today, out of everything, what's the one thing that you would want them to take away? That's sales is always about solving problems for people. We get really in the weed's, like you and I got kind of far in the weeds of like sales management and leadership and and how do we forexer people? And how do we train our people and how do we run the drills? And for some of you, like your brain is like holy cow, right, how am I going to do all that in a day? Right, but when we really drilled down to it, what is our job as sales people's our job as sales people or leaders and sales organizations are to solve problems for people and if, at any point in time, we find ourselves away wasting time on things that are not solving problems for people, they're probably not selles activities. I love that. Love that, love that. Everyone write that one down. We will be using that one for promoting the episode. So, Ryan, thank you so much. This was a great conversation. I enjoyed it. I hope you had fun. Hope everyone who's listening, you know, got out of the got a lot out of it. Please make sure you connect with Ryan. This is definitely someone that you should connect with. A lot of great information. So I appreciate your time. Please make sure everyone that you do subscribe to the podcast on Apple Or, if you're an android user, on spotify as well. You'll pop over to the Youtube Channel and watch our conversation as well. Please make sure you share it out that I'm I know there's a lot of organizations and people that could use the information that Ryan shared today. I do appreciate your tension. I know there's a lot of places that you could be watching and consuming content, but the fact that you spend some time with Ryan and myself means the world to me. So, as I say at the end of every episode, you're in charge, but now Ryan gave you a few more tools to help you become more successful, both professionally and personally. So I hope to see you again on the next episode, Ryan. It was absolute pleasure. I look forward to being in contact and connecting with you and picking your brain some more awesome. Thanks, glad, thanks so much. Take care.

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