"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch
"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch

Episode 135 · 7 months ago

A Key Leadership Skill: Being Other Focused with Andy McDowell

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

A key Leadership Skill all of us should embrace is being other focused. Now not many people may have heard this saying. We have all heard of servant leadership but Andy McDowell, former Boeing employee and now leadership coach, explains why being other focused is more powerful.  

From his viewpoint, connecting with your team through partnerships versus authoritative directives generate more value and long term success A great conversation.  

Enjoy and please rate, share and subscribe to the show.  

Andy McDowell  

Andy is an engineer by trade and a creative by nature. He spent 22 years with the Boeing Company, where he always felt more like a life coach than a boss. In 2002, he began his journey into entrepreneurship within a corporation when he was asked to develop an Airspace Design Consulting business from scratch that would serve the global government market.  

Andy has a Bachelor’s Degree from Georgia Tech in Electrical Engineering and a Master’s Degree in Computer Information Systems from Georgia State. Naturally, his aviation work took him around the world and enabled him to work on high-profile projects - such as preparing the Beijing and Sochi Airports for their respective Olympic Games.  

Connect with Andy: www.generateyourvalue.com andy@generateyourvalue.com

About Glenn Pasch:

"Everyone finds themselves in charge at some point in their lives. Yet many of us lack the skills to generate consistent results. My goal is to help you learn the skills to adapt and grow in your personal and business life.”

Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, a full service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses create and deliver customers raving, recommending & returning for more. He is author of 2 books including "The Power of Connected Marketing" and has spoken and educated audiences throughout the US and internationally.

Let’s Connect:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennpasch/

Personal Website http://glennpasch.com/

Company website: https://pcgdigital.com/

Support for this episode comes from PCG digital. As a business owner, you want to surround yourself with people who can help you achieve your goals when it comes to digital marketing. That's what PCG digital does best. If you want a true partner helping connect your message to more customers than you need to reach out to PCG digital. Maximize your marketing dollars with PCG digital. Go to PCG digitalcom for more information, and don't forget to mention the you're in charge podcast. What does it mean as a leader to be other focused? I know a lot of times we hear the words servant leadership, but my guest today, Andy Mcdowell, who worked at Boeing for many, many years and now it has his own consulting company, who is leading the charge of helping leaders understand the difference. Sometimes, as he said, servant leadership is only focused on my team, where other focused leadership means, no matter what, division to division, customers, other people in your organization or just in your own life, your leadership now impacts so many other people. So I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Also talking about his experience heading up major projects for Boeing in some of the struggles he had, lessons he learned as a leadership and the key, as he always is sharing very tactical advice to help you become a better leader. So let's dive into today's episod. So do you're in charge now? What with Andy mcdow? Okay, well, thank you so much for being here and I cannot wait to pick your brain. I mean, just chatting with you a few moments ago before we hit the record button. Just really excited because I think we have a lot of things in common. As I mentioned, the goal of this show is to help people who find themselves in charge and they don't know where to turn. So, for you, when someone is new in a position of leadership, what are some of the skills? Were things they should be focusing on first in order to put themselves in a good position with their new team or members of the project? So, for myself, biggest thing is culture of the team. So what kind of environments are you creating? Are you creating a level of emotional safety, particularly if you're coming into, quote, fix right a situation, you've got to understand the underlying dynamics of what's going on. Is it logical technical issues? Is A team dynamics? Is it? They're over their head. They don't have proper guidelines or expectations. You know, it's not being it was not communicated well as to you know, the end goals and what we're trying to achieve the team and in particular, why, why is it we're doing this? I'm a big lie person. So you've got to do some investigation, if you will, in this complex environment, because there could be I just went through I don't know what seven or eight items and I don't think that's an exhaustive list. Know of what could be underline and why the team is struggling or underperforming or whatever. So it's you got to get to the truth. Do you talk to the person so so in that situation? And I want to just unpack that a little bit. So if you going into a situation, someone's bringing you in because either the teams underperforming and you're going to run it, or your consultants you're trying to dig in here. Do some of those questions happen before you even get to the team, meaning talking to the people who hired you or bringing you in for their perspective? Absolutely, okay, absolutely trying to discover what the truth is, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle right, because we all bring our own biases and perceptions and so forth to what the problem is. So you've got to you got to get through all the stakeholders, which includes the people that you know hired you and is bringing you in or you know a leader within your but in your company that's brought you into try and fix the situation, to under stand all of you points. Yeah, I think a good question I used to ask is why am I here? You know, why? Why are we? Why are why are we addressing this today? Why didn't we address it six months ago? Why are we not doing it six months from now? Like, what was the trigger point that something bubbled up that you had to make a change bring someone in need some help? I think that's a very good question to actually start that conversation in a very easy way, versus all right, I'm the hero, I'm...

...going to come in and save the day and possibly not offending other people, to say well, you people are screwing things up and that's why I'm here. So letting them make the decision. They're bringing you in. Let them guide you and then you're right. You're probably the more you keep asking those questions, further down you're going to find everybody has their viewpoint of why and then you have to sort of sift through to find what you can take action on. Would that be a fair assessment? Yeah, and I have have a living example in my own tenure Boeing over this. So the Denver Airport, which is named after a word, Ray Jepsen Jepisen, got bought by bowing. That's how I got into the Boeing world. MMM was struggling to get efficiency out of the airspace in their in their airport and was trying to bring in GPS, which is the area I was focused within. Bolling was bringing gps into flight operations in the FA had struggled on its own. I got pulled aside by the CEO my division one day and said, Hey, I'd like to give a gift to Denver airport since our founder was named, you know, the terminal billings named after him, and so that's when I started digging. So the premise was not necessarily to fix an issue but as I started wrestling with all the leaves, so to speak, to get to the core of the issue. I found out the FA it struggled trying to bring GPS in. The airlines were frustrated. The FA had done it right and by asking enough questions, found out that had a common enemy. But there was a lot of finger pointing that was going on and was able to facilitate a meeting group on both sides would all the proper stakeholders and get agreement as to what the common enemy was and to understand each other's rolls in flight operations right. We eventually got controllers into flight simulators to see what pilots did when they're flying the airplanes and their workload, and pilots got to get into ATC rooms and see what patrollers had to do with and juggling multiple airplanes at the same time. And all sudden, with more knowledge in each other's heads, we were able to be successful in it. But what hell? But but I do it all the investigation and so forth, and I staying the true issues, knowing where the common enemy was. You couldn't really get everybody to the table and working together. No one. I think that's really important. So for audience, you know, I hope you're taking notes on this, because what it would you know, it sounds like not. Oh well, we just asked everybody to get to the table and sometimes that doesn't happen. But because everyone's protecting their themselves, you're coming in with a guarded reaction. So when you're bringing teammates together, or especially different departments, you have this, well, I hope you're not going to blame me for this, and you come in very defensive and you have to break down those barriers to just put the problem on the board, so to speak, the White Board over here, this is where we want to get to, and then listening to everybody's peace. But I thought which was really brilliant was having the different departments experience or try to understand as best they could what someone else does, because it's easy to just assume someone's Oh well, they don't work as hard as I do, or I that's not important. I do. You know, it becomes very self centered versus putting yourself in someone else's shoe for a moment and saying, well, where does their piece fit into this? And I need to understand that because if they're doing their job really well, then it could make my job easier. Or I'm a I'm a connector to them, versus this idea of silos, and I think we see that a lot in business is where everybody's departments are siload off and it's very hard to break those walls down. That was really about finding the win win. So they have different drivers. So for the airline it's all about the efficiency of the flight, particularly as it comes to fuel m getting the airplane down from thirty Fivezero feet down to the ground, whereas for the the FA and air traffic control, is capacity. They there, the sheriff in the town is trying to juggle all these airplanes and have to write something relative to safety to get all these airplanes on the ground, and the two conflict at times. So...

...a lot of the discussion centered around finding the common enemy. Was An identification and acknowledgement they have different drivers in their business and trying to find the win win between a both. Can we find a way such that the efficiency of the airplanes maximized, takes advantage of all the equipment on board technology, while at the same time understand what the controller has to go through and maximizes their ability to handle as many airplanes it's possible? Right and trying to avoid, if you will, the areas were conflicts going to occur and you end up with a loose, loose right. I think that's that's important, that idea of wind, winner, lose, lose, and you have to get to a discussion point with each other to really understand what's important. I think the key, and again I hope you guys are listening, that idea of what drives your business, because if efficiency is driving my that's that my KPI, so to speak, that's what I'm being measured on in terms of success. Is Efficiency. Well, someone else may turn around and say, well, that's not what I'm measured on mom that measured on end result. You know, if you take it outside of you know, the the airport, you might have a team where it's all about sales and someone says I'm only measured on the revenue that I generate, and someone else is going to say, well, you're wasting all these opportunities. So you're not being efficient with what's going on with the people who are reaching. You're just swinging for the fence and because you hit a couple of them, you're a winner. And I think understanding ultimately what the leadership at the top is measuring and you can't say, well, I want them both because sometimes, as you said, and I think that's really important understand, and sometimes there's going to be conflict because a lot of times it's how I'm compensated. You know the the old adages. People just work or pay plan and they're going to be successful in that way, and you really have to understand then, ultimately, what's important or can we somewhere meet in the middle? I think that's a really important skill to have. Certain degree was also a mindset issue, particularly with the controllers. You know, we're coming in with a mindset of we've been doing it this way for fifty years and the it's not broken, so why are we trying to fix it? So we had to get over the mindset and show how GPS could really lessen their workload from that perspective and get some experience with the product per se and eventually got to a mindset of don't you dare take my gps away. When what's the the white bulb went on and went wow, what a great tool for us to have in our toolbox. I'm safety perspective and a decrease in workload standpoint. It's like, why didn't we do the sooner. So you went from a pride ego why, why are we doing this, to Oh my gosh, why didn't we do it right? A lot of it was just experience and information in and understanding of the of the tool that had been developed by the military eventually got into civilian life that could bring a lot of benefit to the table. So there's a lot of education on both sides right. So, so I want to pivot just slightly now, because you've mentioned a couple. In these scenarios that there has, there are certain skills that those people who are leading these discussions need to have and you know, I'd listened to one of your podcasts with you and your, you know, your partner, talking about leadership skills and each of you chose three that you thought were the most important, and one of the ones that stood out was this idea of let me just read it because I want to make sure I get her at other focused and I think sometimes people get this idea of servant leadership and a lot of these terms are just bandied about, but I liked better that language that you had, which was other focus, because sometimes when you say servant, someone feels will. I'm less than someone else versus other focused, which is I think you are commenting as well, saying you know you have to understand the other person, what they want, what they're what their drivers are in order to be successful. Can you expand on that, that idea of being an other focus leader and why it's important? Well, I think the I like to I like to term others focus too much more than servant, for the reasons you stated, but also it's it's generic enough, if you will, to open it up to other steak olders. So it's not servant leadership tends to talk about the dynamic between...

...them, a leader of ass so to speak, with their team. But by saying others focused, it opens that statement, if you will, to other stakeholders, like customers or other teams within your company that your team is interacting with, right with vendors that are supplying your business. It really becomes much more of a inclusive three hundred and sixty kind of look that. Yes, my team is important, it's it's important that we be spot on with what we're doing, but why we're doing that? We're taking others that have a stake in what we're doing into consideration as much as you know what servant leadership connotates between yourself and your team, right. So it's a it's a more all inclusive kind of term, sort of leading with compassion and empathy to say, yeah, we could do this, but it's going to affect this team and this team in this way. We got to go get concurrence, bring them in right as part of the conversation, finding the win win between our two teams. And then if we do that, then it's a win for our customers, as opposed to doing everything in the silo, not taking take into account what are changes in a way we do things, whether we processes or product or service, is going to do to these other people who are just as important in the company and in serving our customers. So that's why I like the term better than servant leadership, is it's an others focused right, and all that thing. What there's are? Yeah, goes back to what you had started the conversation with at the very beginning, talking about culture. You know, that's another word that gets bandied about of like it's this miracle thing versus that we can just go run down like I'm going to change culture, I'm going to put a great culture when someone comments about a great culture. I think it's based on what you're just saying is that, yes, I can be focused on my team, but when I pivot over here, I'm on someone else's team. I always say if you're leading a team or a division, you're on someone else's team as well, meaning that you know someone, there's someone above you, and so you have to be open to all of that. And that again going that others focus is what's the mission of the whole company? Yeah, so the next point right, my piece fits into this. I equated sometimes to sports teams, but I also like racing, you know, with a pit crew, everybody has that job to get that machine back out, and if somebody says I'm more important than the other, that machine just sits in the lane and doesn't move forward. So you're right, it's this other focused where it becomes a mentality of no matter who's in front of me, it's understanding that position and where a connects so the whole machine can move forward. I think that that and I think that's how I I love the way you're tying that into you know, culture is the end result of this, versus the reverse, where culture and then we try to figure out how to develop it and I talk. I talked a lot and I'm just a big believer if you're going to be influential within your own team or with the other stakeholders or other team members, HMM, you got to explain the why. And going back to the Denver example, it's find and common enemy. was really about finding the why of what we're doing and why we're doing it. You know, we want to hot hot highly efficient, high capacity flighting ground operation that serves airlines who serve and customers, who serves our nation, that serves businesses around the world and so forth. If you can put all that in a statement that everybody can agree upon M and find that why, you're going to be you're going to be in good shape. You know, you're going to just going to be easier to get so if you give them that why. So we again just want to for those who are new to this and even some experience people. So you're giving the overall why of for the everything and then that allows them to back out their own why for their own peace to the puzzle. Right. That my hearing right, but I think that's where I think that's where leadership tends to fail, though. Right. So, you know, with where I was in the organization, with Boeing, always got handed, you know, the yearly goals or yearly strategy, and the challenge for me was try and figure out any statements that tend to be up at a hundred thousand feet. MMM. Where does the strategy and the reason why my team exists fit in that, and then also translate it to for each of my team members,...

...how are you contributing to that so they see a sense of purpose, a sense of belonging, a sense of okay, there's reasons why myself and this team and so forth, they're in the company helping to achieve on the why, and I think that's where business tends to fall down is not do any good job of explaining that. That why. And there's a tendency, particularly in the bigger corporations, where they develop a strategies and the thought as well. That's what my executive and, you know, upper mintal management, whatever leaders are going to do. I'm just going to hand over the goods, so to speak, and say here's our yearly strategy or here's our five year strategy. Go forth to do great things. They will these something scratching the head. Go on, okay, how do we fit into this? Right, which is whole, and it's exactly why I started this podcast for those conversations, is when you are handed some thing and you go, well, great, now what do I do? And you guess, and I agree. I don't think you might may not have to do it for them, but you have to say, okay, well, go out and figure your Guy Strategy. Come back, let's talk about it to make sure it aligns right. So I'm not doing the work for that team, but if I said to you, you know, okay, this is where we're going, here's how your team fits into this, you go think through what you think you're going to be doing over the next six eight months into in order to deliver this. Then then come back, let's meet and Aligne. I agree with you. I think there's a lot of assumptions because, let's say you've been with them for x period of time, they're just going to make an assumption know he knows what to do or they'll figure it out and there's a lot of wasted time, a lot of frustration, lot of guessing, lot of failure. That, to your point, is maybe a little extra conversation or one extra meeting to just validate the path you're going down, would say. Everybody a lot of time and it tends to the conversations tend to exist in the board room. So instead of maybe an inter process where these Zikas are getting together and thinking about a strategy and then maybe before they officially release it, you know, put it down one or two levels in right Barner feedback, because developing strategies a little bit of an art and how you phrase these things and how you deliver it and how are you're telling the story. You know, storytelling is a huge skill within leadership. So how are you telling the strategic story to those below you and are you phrasing it in such a way the keywords or whatever can be picked out by any organization to focus on and allow them to contribute right in that particular way? A lot of times it's all it's all done with the, I don't know, top dozen folks and they're doing their own thing and no feedback is garnered and it's not a all right, MR leaders, sit down and think about what you think would be your strategic goals for the year, provided as an input, and it goes up, up up ground, that's considered and so forth, and neither agreed upon or not agreed upon, or modified or whatever, so that you're doing as much listening as you are talking. Right, but I think, and again what I love about this conversation, is you're right, that's exactly what happens. It's in the board room. I remember one time I was working for an organization and when I went out into the field to see how things were going, it wasn't going very well because they said, well, you're sitting up in your ivory tower making all these decisions without letting US know down here. So I think to your point that one we're not communicating it downstream. But I think the other thing that clicked in my head when you were saying this because sometimes we get caught too caught up in the story of it all, but then we're still leaving it for them to interpret that story and convert it into actions. Right, they're guessing, what, what am I supposed to do in order to deliver on that? That's what I see a lot of times failures of businesses is we haven't broken the story into actions that the team can then say, okay, if we do these actions, we will generate these results, we will move towards fulfilling that story because, you know, we get enamored in our words, we get enamored in our you know, those big meetings and pumping people up and talking and everyone's clapping and yelling, and they still walk away going I get the story, I just don't know how to do it. So I think to your point is one of the best leadership skills is how do I convert story into actions so my team can then feel comfortable going I know what I have to...

...do every day versus always that what you meant? Oh, I thought you meant that. And getting back to the frustration, getting back to the disconnect where we're not really moving forward. Well, it's also, you know, one of my biggest frustrations that my time at Boeing was, you know, I build a business from scratch that was strategic in nature. We were going out and doing things with governments. Weren't making you know, comparatively speaking other divisions, we were not a big money maker, but what we were doing is just strategically so that other divisions can make more money than what they were. So I would get into two meetings and all the focus was about the organic growth with the big money makers in the business and they're coming out with all these tools in the cockpit for pilots and so forth. You know what we're seeing now and IPADS and so forth. You know elimination of paper in the cockpit and so forth, and I would get in there. They talk about these fuel efficiency tools and so forth and so on, and they are missing the one big stakeholder, which is the one I was dealing with, which is the government in the the sheriff and town that's managing the airspace. And I'm like, okay, does your tool take any consideration or how many inputs from air traffic control in terms of the fuel efficiency? No, well, that's an FA thing, that's an air traffic control thing. We have no control over that, so forth and so on, and I'm like, so you're leaving a major stakeholder out of the equation. So how much do you think this tools really going to help? Write the people in the cockpit? There's a missing hole in the story. And so I could sit there and translate strategy and so forth and try and get my team on board and then I turn around and find out that our story, our contribution to the cause and everything is not being considered in the other pieces because it's too complex. We don't want to understand it, even though I have a team but in the company that does understand it, we could bring into the meetings and have discussions with and how an ATC function could contribute to the tool and have a really Whiz Bang tool compared to what the competition is. So so on. So you've got this silo mentality. If I don't know it and I don't understand it, then I don't want to deal with it. And and then you turn around, your story starts falling apart right particularly in front of the customer. It's like, well, I was expecting more games out of this product. It's like well, yeah, okay, don't don't pay attention to the man behind the behind the currently here by that curtain, so to speak, as you really haven't dealt with somebody who's a major stakeholder in the problem. Right, right, right. So, so let's give it a little bit now. I want I'm really curious about now that you're, you know, with your company, generate your value. That's name of your podcast, name of your company. Talk to me about what that means, like what? What? What's the goal? What's the story of Your Company and why choosing those words? Why those words specifically? What do they mean to you? I'm glad you ask that questions. That's the question I always end up with the end of interviews with people on my podcasts to get people's interpretation of what the words generate, your value mean. So let me talk about some of my beliefs. I believe leadership comes from the inside out. When people ask you what do you do, I say I'm a life leadership and small business coach and put those words in those specific order. For reason and and this gets into what you stated at the beginning of our time together about the overlap between life and business. MMM, so, human beings have needs in this world. Food on the table, roof over the head, feeling like you belong to something bigger than yourself, to have love and relationships and to be seen by people in this world. Like I can go on and on a list of twenty things, but it's all about needs. Businesses were set up to address needs in the marketplace. You know, started with the act of develop in a currency and then scales coming in allow you to deliver things at a cheaper cost and somebody can do on their own a business game available that were dressing needs in the world, in society. So it seems that you could use business tools for strategy, this art developing life strategy tools...

...with some minor modifications, and that's what my methodology, in a way I practice, so to speak, with my customers, is from that standpoint. So if you're doing a three hundred and sixty around your life, where, where are you helping with the needs of the world? But value do you as a person bring to the world? You know, whether it's through your business, it's through your relationship and your spouse, your relationship with your kids, your relationships with your neighbor church members, whatever role or fact that you have in life, how are you contributing or bringing value to the world? Because I'm a firm believer that's when joy and happiness and success start showing up in your life, when you start paying attention to those right items. So it's really about looking at where are you generating value in the world or where you having difficulties with it? That we can work on in yourself leadership and then from you falling down and get yourself back up and learning a lot of lessons and things about life and self leadership. You can then use that to turn around and start leading other people in an effective way that you get results because of your experiences and what you learned in self leadership. Right, you can do with other human beings, human being, human being, from that perspective and get better results out your team and your business and so forth, so on. So that's where the term came from. I wrote a blog for a couple of years while still at going with that title. Decided to set up my business that way when I got laid off because a thirty seven Max crisis and wanted to go generate my value in this world. Right, I with my why, my purpose, why I'm here on this earth. No, I love that. I love that. I think that's a really important thing. Is there's a lot of times where people don't think they have value to share. They feel that everyone's smarter than they are, better at them. And you know, with social media, everybody, it gets any all human dynamics, right, gets yeah, so, course them. It gets into your creativity. Sure you know. How do you deal with judgment and shame and all the those type factors in your life? And I are you truly living out your best potential right? And I think that, I think that's hard for some people who haven't been in a situation where they have that support. You know, they've they've always been told they're not good enough or they just don't for some reason perceived they're not good enough. And, as I was saying, you know with social media, now everyone's posting their best life out there. And so, you know, I've said, I know the game of social media and sometimes I look at this and go out my doing enough and then I have to sort of slap myself in the head and just go stop, stop, well, you know what, what's your why? Get back on track, stop getting distracted with other people's wives. So all right. So, as we're wrapping up, because this idea of leadership, see, I think sometimes people make the mistake and that's why I think that idea of generate your value is that I think there's times where people think they only have leaders are at business or leaders are in a church. A reality is a lot of people are leaders in their family, their leaders for their friends, their leaders at their school what so it's this idea of going circling back again to this idea of, you know, other focused that's the way you move through your life instead of well, now I'm going to go put my leader hat on as I drive into the parking lot of my business. So so for those folks who don't really maybe again, they're listening to it and they don't think of themselves as leaders, what would you say to them in terms of yeah, y'are. And here's why. Well, I think there's a misconception that to be a leader you have to have a title. Hmm, I love that and I'm a firm leader of the number one job of leaders to build other leaders and you do that through influence. So you could be you could be a member of a division of a company, have have a title or position that doesn't necessarily denote the leadership, yet be a leadership with amongst the team. Yeah, from their perspective, and I think, I think that's not often looked at enough. When you know, I came from a very complex technical company and oftentimes she had people are...

...really good technical skills and then they promote him into a supervisor, him or her in his supervisor position, they fall flat on their face because they haven't developed their influence skills. You know, how you put them in as like a team lead on a project when out right I don't. But just see how they do influencing and managing other people on the project kind of perspective before you make that decision to move them over to a supervisorsment position. Yeah, that happens in so many companies where, especially again in sales. You know, a top sales person doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be the best manager of a sales team. I mean, look at Michael Jordan, arguably one of the best, if not the best, player. Couldn't coach. So and to your point, I think when people have asked me, well, who should I be considering and I would paint a scenario. I would say, okay, so who's leading the team right now? And they say, okay, Andrews leading the team. He goes on vacation, he's a way. The team still running. When somebody has a question or they're struggling or they need help on something, who do they go to? WHO's that person that's on that team? Because in my mind, if there's a common person that multiple people say, they probably have those inherent skills that you're talking about of empathy patients. They're good teachers, they do know what's going on. They a creativity, thinking all the box thereprnchables, all of the approachable, not afraid to fall fall in her face for a minute and get back up and try again, and I say that's a person you should start consider. Well, well, they're not the greatest at x, Y and Z, but they're probably in the top twenty five percent. I said, it's just that they may not have that focus on that one skill to be that where. But that's who you really want. And all of a sudden it opens people's eyes to people they never would have considered just putting them through that exercise. But when they do put that person in that position, the team, the rest of the team, is happy about that because they still have that person that was approachable. They still have that person who has empathy and they feel that will, we are going to do this together. We're sometimes those top one percenters. It's a self focused, not other focused, if that makes sense. It's also interesting as a leader, the more one thing you're going to get graded on as results. HMM, and it's not saying anything about WHO's doing the most of the heavy lifting in it it's about an understanding of okay, to get these results, will kind of skills or strengths are needed to be successful and getting right results. Knowing that and using that in your conversations with your team members to understand what are their desires and goals and their career and so forth, then be having the proper conversations to understand that. You know, I once got, I was not even involved in a conversation about replacing by boss, you know, as a vice president, and they pick somebody else, I learned a hard lesson about how succession happens. If Boeing but right and he has state to pick up the phone next time I was in Denver and sit down with the CEO of the division, make an appointment, just ask the question. So what are you looking for out of a vice president? Right, he's like, great question. Nobody's ever asked me that before. So I don't know if I have an answer for you today. To let me think about it and let's get an appointment together, you know, in a week or two. And sure enough he was in town a week or two later and sat down on being had that conversation. But right kind of threw me back a little bit when he said nobody's ever asked me a question before. Well, because, again, to your point is a lot of times people are waiting for others to tell them what to do or they assume that that person in that leadership role is always looking, versus saying, let me know what it's going to take in order to do this, to make the team, to be considered right, if you're playing sports, you know you need certain skills in order to make a team and you have to practice those skills to be considered to be part of the team. Why more leaders don't lay that out, to say, if we're looking for this, here are the qualifications, here are the things we're looking for, here the skill sets that we're looking for, and post it and let people who are interested work towards that to be able es todkse exactly I put into work. You told me what you were looking for. Here it...

...is versus. Goes back to that earlier conversation of the disconnect. One side's not talking to the other side, they assume the other person understood and the other team is going. Well, you never told me what you wanted and there's more frustration versus. No, I laid it exactly it out here's what I'm looking for. Do you have those qualifications? Do you have those skill sets? Do you have something close to that? If you don't have exactly it, do you have something else that we can have in order to have these conversations and move forward? So I think, you know, it's a perfect way to wrap everything up. Is talking about. We have to do more conversations within our team to explain what we're looking for, inter departmental, breaking down those silos, to understand how we connect with each other, explain what our team does. I'll guarantee of a lot of people who don't have any idea what the other team does. They just know, Oh, they're over there and that's all right, when actually they may have a big impact. Were need your help from your department to do their job better, and everybody's waiting for someone to miraculously just explain it or break down the barriers, versus them taking it on themselves as excuse me, I need to understand what you're doing over here because I think it influences me. Well. Once again, if you're not having those conversations, you don't understand what value and other organization you can bring to your team exactly. You don't know what they're doing, you don't know the value that they contribute to the overall company and therefore you don't understand how they might be able to bring value to your organization, your product, your service exactly that you're responsible for, unless you have some curiosity and ask the right questions to try and try and understand that you know it. I had that in the big way with another division was sort of in my area within Boeing and it wasn't until they came down and actually spent time and my team that they understand frustrations and why we weren't making progress and areas it thought we should be. When they came to understand all isn't getting the support that I needed from the company. It's like you're just making assumptions as opposed to truly coming down, having a conversation and understand the flight that we were in to do the thing. I think it's a great, great way to put a sort of a you know period to this conversation is that idea of making assumptions versus being curious, and I think curious career curiosity is a key leadership for the truly great leaders. They're always asking the questions. Why what you do. They're interested. It goes back to what we're saying before. They're interested in the other person that I can to. More I talk to you, the more information I get, and then I can put it through my brain to say, okay, does this affect me? No, does it, yes, what can we do with this information? And sometimes that person who's completely outside of your department, just because they're not buried in the day to day, they may offer some suggestion that could unlock something that you've been struggling with because you're staring at it all day. You no longer see it. It's so close to your face you can't see it anymore and someone just goes, why are you doing that? Did you ever think about this? And all of a sudden you but if you're not curious and willing to ask, then it doesn't happen. So so great, tremendous life skill. Absolutely, absolutely. Is a lot about business here, but curiosity is a huge life skill. Online set. No, I totally agree. I think the you know, people constantly learning. You know my my Fatherin law is good Lord, he's in his s and he's constantly you know, I think I'm going to learn a new language. I'm reading this book. I was always curious about this, you know, I want to understand. You know my father's very same way is going to be s constantly asking questions and, Lo and behold, their minds are still sharp and they're still very active, because I think curiosity is a great engine fuel. So all right, so as we wrap up every time, we do in this episode. So again, thank you, Andrew, for being here. This is great. We yes throw out four or five questions. I call him the one. So it's just one thing that comes to mind. Again, completely random, but we get to know about you a little bit more. So first thing, the let's. I'm always fascinated because my son is sixteen. At fifteen, sixteen seventeen year old brain going on. We look back at the sixteen seventeen year old Andrew, and Andrew you are now. What's the one thing that you can look back on and you would say this is still similar, this is a trait that's always been there. And what's something completely different that the seventeen year old would never think that you would he'd be where you are today. Things remained the same as kindness. HMM, compassion, those type things. What's change? So in high school, College, you know,...

...early s in it, it was my contribution to the failure my first marriage was bad self esteem. So difference. Today's obviously much more confident, believe in myself, love myself, all those type things that come with healthy, healthy esteem. But it's been a life journey from that perspective where I got help, you know, from a therapist and reading self help books and everything that curiosity brings to try and get myself to a point to truly live a life that I wanted for myself. Great Love that love that. So then, on the topic of books are inspiring things. What's one book that you've read or something you've listened to that's inspired you that you would recommend to the audience? My favorite book is start with wife from Simon Senek. I'm a huge fan of Simon Senek. Ego Is the enemy, Ryan holidays, big Britan Brune Brown fan so right, and any of those thought leaders that's dealing with purpose and emotions and so forth. I'm a big fan of because I think in the past it was all just thrown under the under the carpet, and now it's finally being thrown out and exposed to talked about. Great. Yeah, well, we'll put those in the show notes too. We always like to keep a list of all the books that our guests recommend. Okay, next one is one place in the world that you have not been to that you would like to travel to? Australia. Okay, I was always sending you know, Boeings make strategy items. Were China and so for so is the head of the team. I always always going to the main strategic pieces and I got to send my team members to the fun places. All right. So then on that, what's the one thing as a traveler? Yeah, that you always need or you can't do without? What's the one thing that you you always have to have when you're traveling? Camera? Camera, camera, or your phone camera, doesn't matter. It. Well, it doesn't matter now with where the technology goes right. I've been a photographer since being a teenager and so always like to capture my experiences perspective. We do that a lot with our family and I did something for my wife, Oh God, now is it six years ago? For Christmas one year, I put together a book of photos of everything we did that year and she basically said, you know you're screwed. You have to do this every year now. So every year at Christmas she gets a book of everything we've done and it's great one. You forget all the adventures you've had during the year where they blend in. Also you get to see the kids grow and changing and things like that. So that's also fun and it becomes a legacy to hand down to, you know, their children some day. All right, last one talked about a lot of things. I'm really great information and what I really appreciate about our conversation is a lot of tactical things that people can take away and write down and go okay, let me try to apply this, as they said in the beginning. That's where I think a lot of things, and we've talked about it a couple times, is we as leader sometimes are not as clear as we should be. We assume people understand what we're saying or understand that story that we're talking about is going to generate what we think it's going to. So, out of everything we talked about today, if you said I hope the audience gets this one thing, what's that? One thing? Probably find the win win. The others focus conversation, finding the win win right, you know, a suddenly securiosity. Know things we're talked about, but if I had one item to highlight, it would be that great. Yeah, I think that. I think that's important. It again, it ties so much of what you talked about today. Others Focus. You're putting someone else for your trying to understand that idea of curiosity so that we both can win. I think that's really, really important. So so again and you're thank you so much. I really appreciate it our time today, for you taking some time. So tell the audience where they can connect with you. Listen to your podcast, connect with you online. That's always important that we want our audiences to reach out to our guests. So then the main place is my website at www dotgenerate your valuecom showcases on my services and offerings. You can also access my podcast directly on the...

...website. Is mentioned. That podcast is generate your values out on all the major podcast platforms. We do it weekly, about thirty thirty four, much like yours. Thirty to forty five minutes release on Tuesdays, and I'm on all the major social media platforms as well. To search either my name are Generat your value findest great great so please, folks, connect, reach out if you have some questions about what we talked about today, Andrew, I'm sure, will connect with you and chat with you as well. So, again, you know the drill is. We wind down every episode. Please make sure that if you did find value in the conversation, they share it out. There's someone in your network that could benefit from this. Make sure that, if you like this, subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, be at apple or Android user, everywhere where. We're everywhere as well. We're also on the Youtube. We have a video youtube channel, so please go over there as well. I know there's a lot of places that you could connect and listen to some content, but the fact that you spend some time with both of us today means the world to me. As always, I appreciate it and, as I say at the end of every episode, you're in charge, but when you feel that I don't know what do, I do? What now? What next? Please make sure you come back. We put things out weekly which have these conversations with guests who are here to help you become the leader that you want to be. So thank you again, so much. And I look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

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