"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch
"You're In Charge" with Glenn Pasch

Episode 137 · 1 month ago

Are You Delivering the Customer Experience You Market?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Every business spends a great deal of money each month, generating interest online. Driving individuals to your website or your brick and mortar location. 

My guest today, Whit Norrad challenges you to ask if when customers interact, are you delivering on the experience you are marketing? If not, are you just wasting your money.

Fascinating conversation with a true marketing expert. Tactical and fun so don't miss out!! 

About Whit Norrad

A technical marketer with a wealth of strategic knowledge and experience. Helping brands grow through planning, analysis, and ongoing consulting to exceed their goals. 10+ years of experience in marketing and demand generation. Key strengths in: strategic direction, planning across multiple marketing channels, managing ongoing client projects, reporting and analysis, performance interpretation and communication. 

CONTACT@whitnorrad everywhere

www.whitnorrad.com

www.flexdealer.com for those in automotive

SOCIALS

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitnorrad/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/whitnorrad

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/whitnorrad 

About Glenn Pasch:

"Everyone finds themselves in charge at some point in their lives. Yet many of us lack the skills to generate consistent results. My goal is to help you learn the skills to adapt and grow in your personal and business life.”

Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, a full service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses create and deliver customers raving, recommending & returning for more. He is author of 2 books including "The Power of Connected Marketing" and has spoken and educated audiences throughout the US and internationally.

Let’s Connect:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennpasch/

Personal Website http://glennpasch.com/

Company website: https://pcgdigital.com/

Support for this episode comes from PCG digital. As a business owner, you want to surround yourself with people who can help you achieve your goals when it comes to digital marketing. That's what PCG digital does best. If you want a true partner helping connect your message to more customers than you need to, reach out to PCG digital. Maximize your marketing dollars with PCG digital. Go to PCG digitalcom for more information, and don't forget to mention the you're in charge podcast. Every month. Company spend a lot of money online marketing to generate traffic to their website and hopefully we're engaging them when they get their making it easy for them to do business with us so that they'll purchase our products and services. But according to my guests today, with Norad who is the head of client marketing and strategy for flex dealer, a marketing agency in Canada that serves both the Canadian market and the US market, she said there's two things that business is really need to pay attention to. One is, are they really connected? Are they delivering on the experience that they're marketing in a consistent and sustainable way? And secondly, is, do the leaders of the organization have the patients to understand that marketing takes time to generate the results that you're looking for. Fascinating conversation. She is a great guest that can't wait for you to meet. So let's dive into today's episode of you're in charge. Now what with with Nora at all? Right, so I'm very excited that you're here with so let's just dive into the whole marketing game here, because you've been doing marketing for a very, very long time and and you know when we connect it on twitter, you're very passionate about it, opinionated about it in a good way. But for businesses or someone who's sitting there listening right now and saying, well, I'm in charge of marketing for my my company, where are some common mistakes that people are making today in terms of their marketing? I think the biggest thing that I encounter is lack of planning, and I think that personally comes from, yes, the person in the driver's seat of the marketing department, if you will, but then oftentimes from business ownership, where it can be tough for people to actually get buy in from the people that you know write their paychecks. To whether that's to higher an appropriate photographer or they're expecting that person to do too much. So that piece is really they all tied together in terms of cost and in terms of what making a plan looks like and then also following through on that plan. Is it doesn't really matter what the industry is. Every industry moves fast, everything's quick, everything's changing. So it's not so much about having this five year plan or a twelvemonth plan that needs to do x y is the exactly at any given point, but having a generalized road map and being able to prioritize what matters most. So sometimes that means prioritizing individual channels one at a time. You have to different companies or even different Solo printers that have done this successfully. It's not as if they go guns blazing to every single platform all at once, right. So it's really pinpointing priority and then matching that to a strategy over time. So when you're talking about, and I agree with you, I think, this idea of planning there. Well, there's two, two areas we want to cover because you touched on both of them. One is getting buy in and and that connection between leadership and the marketing department and then this other idea of the channels and trying to do too much. So let's talk first about the buy in. I see people when they know clients who hire let's say our agency or your agency. There are some clients who are just great. That's what I hired you to do. Go do it. Sometimes, when you're dealing with somebody on their end, it seems like they're either just overwhelmed, as you said, they're given so much to do, or in some cases they're isolated, meaning nobody in the building knows what they're doing. That slow that's Glen over in the corner there they do marketing. So if someone sitting there going yes, that's mine, I can't get buying. Is it that the person who's receiving you know that higher up doesn't understand it or it's not communicated in a certain way that they can understand? where? Where do you see some of those disconnects, or how do you think someone could improve their communication to get that buying? Yeah, so definitely communication is peace number one, and I would even say there's three. Second being education, but to the right extent, and then at...

...the same time being able to break things down in ways that makes sense, so that leadership or business ownership views cost expenditures as an investment rather than a cost, because that very much is how marketing works, and especially for, you know, second, third gend business owners. Oftentimes I think they've maybe been sort of taking it on the Chin a little bit when it comes to, okay, let's reduce costs, let's do all of these things, but at the same time there is very much an element of marketing where, whether it's in terms of hours, time paid media, there you're you're spending money to make money. So I think being able to not all marketing and not all marketing works, and sometimes that's a disconnect as well, where we just think everything's going to generate x and you're going now, though, we tested that, it failed, we tried this. I think you're your your spot on on making that someone understand it in in terms they understand. Sometimes we get caught in our own marketing lingo and people look at us like what the hell are they saying? Yeah, and I think that happens oftentimes between if there's a marketing person and an agency and leadership, or even just between an individual marketing role and ownership, where there's this very high sort of technical understanding of all the things that go into making campaigns work and then what that actually means, and this is something I've talked about a lot lately, but attribution is something I feel like we're going to we're going to beat to death and it's it's taken through so many stages right where it was. Billboards can't track it, newspaper can't track it, radio can't track it to the same extent that you could digital. So there's this expectation, I think, for anybody especially that isn't dealing with marketing, especially on the digital side, firsthand, of okay, well, if we do this and I put a thousand dollars here, I put Tenzeros here, I can expect X. and it doesn't work like that. It's not clear cut. Does that account for the time that they already dealt with Your Business? Does that account for the time they commented on the post and you said something funny back? So there's no way to track everything and I think the sooner that businesses sort of or rather ownership, begins to accept that and have a little bit more sort of faith in the whole process in the end outcome where everything ties together right, the better off everybody will be. Yeah, I agree with you. I think everybody was sold a bill of goods that with digital everything we can measure every thing and we can't. And we're seeing that especially in you know what we a lot of our clients joint client. You know, we deal in automotive. You know, when you're doing all of these different technology pieces, they don't talk to each other, so you lose that thread of attribution at a certain level. And you know, it is to your point, education of what what each of these campaigns are trying to accomplish. You know, if if the goal of this campaign is them to watch the video, well, that's completely different than a campaign that I want them to click on something and come to my website. But to your point is, I think it's easy when we default to as someone in the marketing chair, when we try to explain and if we get some confusion or pushback, we dig deeper into the data and that's really the wrong thing to do versus try to explain it to someone in there like connect the dots, because a lot of times, yeah, what I found successful was especially with with, you know, maybe first generation or second generation older, older in age ownership. You know, they understood how to market using the technology they had, which was radio, TV, print. So how do you connect what we're doing now to that? You know, how do we say? Well, like Google, my business is the yellow pages, right, and someone goes, Oh, I understand what that means. You say video preroll is a commercial. They go, I'll I understand what that means. It's breaking down that those barriers of confusion and I think your point was really spot on and we I don't want anyone to miss it, is that idea of education. Sometimes the receiver, that owner, thinks I have to understand what wit does, I have to understand how she does everything. You know, she yeah, I just need to he or she needs to understand the reports and what do I have to give to you so that you, as you said, build trust that this is working, it's moving us further down the path. I think those are all real good points, because sometimes it we just keep talking at each other and confusing each other and hence to frustration. Yeah, and it's interesting. A lot of it comes back to sort of the how to win friends and influence people, concepts of you know, twenty, thirty years ago. At this point, where can I meet them where they're at, because I don't want to say everybody in every industry isn't isn't more technical or isn't data driven. There's...

...we have. We definitely have clients where the full hour long digging in, opening it up here is what it looks like, works and there's definitely people that want that, but especially in automotive the vast majority, I would probably estimate seventy five percent of people don't care for that. It's the here's the sort of top five things that you need to know about and what the mean. In we call it kitchen table talk, so very straightforward language. You know, a Google vehicle listing add it's like when you look for shoes, but it's for cars with a picture. Is that is the simple explain right, right, that makes sense, whereas if I say Google vehicle listing ads pull a feed in this and this, and I know they their eyes roll up into the back of their heads. But to your point, I think that's also a very good thing for all of the people listening from both sides. Either you're the owner talking to the marketer or the marketer talking or an agency talking. Is Setting that table, so to speak, right at the beginning of what are the metrics that we want to focus on? What is going what is success looked like for you? Because I could be providing these metrics and they don't mean anything to me. So I don't know. Versus understanding. Well, though, I really just want to know. Is My phone ringing? You know, when people come to my website, what are they doing? Am I generating more opportunities for my team to sell a product and service? Okay, yeah, website traffic coming from here like, okay, maybe, but for the most part you you're going to have some people who are not going to want to dig in and we want to dig in to show you all this because that is s excites us as marketers. So understanding your audience, I think, is really important, really, really a great point now, and it's so funny to all of the all of the nuance in that, because I think sometimes in that lack of planning, people can struggle to either set appropriate goals or to appropriate goals. Right. So if that goal is okay, we want to increase just lead quantity, bar in anything else, that's very possible, but at the same time that dramatic increase very likely comes with a drop in quality. So that becomes a malleable conversation of which of these things matters more and in chasing either one you need to do it for a while to see how it actually works. That that flip flop can't exist, and I think from a high level it's very easy to say let's move the chess pieces when it doesn't work like that. So trying to set that expectation from the marketers chair to ownership into everybody else in the business as well. If there's businesses where there's you have a sales team or even a retail team, those people need to be aware of what's happening, not just in terms of individual promotions but the overall where it's going and why. Yeah, and I again I like try to slow down and, you know, pull over to the rest stop sort of speak on the conversations make sure people really hear what you just said. That idea of time. I don't think we communicate as marketers well enough to our clients the time that either the marketing campaign needs to see results and what results were looking at or how it evolves over time. And that could be tied to the platform you know when you first realize this platform needs forty five to sixty days or ninety days to really understand the audience, and some people think ninety days. I want results now, and so it's really explaining to them certain things need time. We're watching it but we won't know. But once we hit that sort of pacing where now the machines working it understands we want, then we can really accelerate. But it is allowing someone to understand that time. So the other thing you said there, and it's a good place to pivot, where you said there's so many things you know going on and doing multiple things and prioritizing, you know, either what campaign or what you're trying to accomplish. I think that also ties into prioritizing what platform. And I've heard clients getting, wouldn't say nervous there. They're just asking because every day it seems there's another place that we could communicate with people or potentially our customers might be there. You know, now the newest thing that they know what a mode of people are talking about, another businesses is we have to be on ticktock. And the question really is, okay, is my audience there, and what do I do with it, because that's a completely different idea than along an email. I'm going to send a mail piece and it's going to show up in your mailboxer, I'm going to produce a commercial. So what are your thoughts about if someone sitting in the chair now, they're they're new in or even if they're experience rates, are sitting there going, how did they decide...

...where they need to go? Or you know, because if you can't do everything because it's not it waters it down. How did they find or how would you prioritize where you would want to mark it online? I think that brings in almost a side point that's really important. is sort of the the comparison is the thief of Joy Metaphor, where dealer a is totally different from dealer B, business ce is totally different from business d because for some for some dealers, using your example of Tick Tock, they're there, they've mastered all of the other pieces. Now it's time to incorporate this new thing. But then if you look to perhaps a small world business that manages to post on facebook once a week, does it make sense for them to say, okay, we're going to go to tick tock. No, and does that sort of silver spoon, not silver spoon, maybe show any object matter more than the basics? Probably not. So I think it comes down to really evaluating where you're at and what the really what the closed this proximity to increase in your business would be, knowing that is your market. Here, and in specifically the example of Tick Tock, there's individual sales people and dealerships that are being really cool things using this platform, and sometimes that means they're really they're working the leads they already have as almost a means to show off, which I love. And then, in the same token, there's those who are just using it because they think they need to be there, with not an understanding of the end outcome because it's viral. Does vibra matter to you? This is viral matter to you and you know small town Arkansas, or does it matter to you in Small Town Saskatchewan, Canada? Were looking at this, this big thing, and yes, they could. There's the algorithm. Does localize you. I was just on a trip out West and within a day everything I saw was here. Is We're going to go in Vancouver, even though moving in a day. So that's still worth being considered. But at the same time, viral doesn't matter if that person in the UK can't buy a car from you. Is that going to happen? No. So, yeah, that's a great point, because I think one of the things that what I'm hearing from you is we need to first understand our business, who we are, what we do, where our audience is, you know where, and and thinking through where is our audience consuming content and are we there first? Right, somebody's going to say, oh well, you know the everybody's on Tick Tock, and maybe they are. But to your point is, have I taken care of the bigger chunks first? Right, have I mastered you know, maybe facebook is where people are or Linkedin or Ott or something else even could be, in certain areas, the newspaper or whatever it is. Have you master to those? Are you present there? Are you prepared? I've been on this sort of rant lately, of are you present where they where you think your audience is, and are you prepared to engage with them? And then is anybody watching it so that you can refine that sort of process? But to your point is, I think sometimes a lot of industries, or even ourselves, fall prey to the shiny object. I need to be on Tick Tock. Well, why is that really right for you? You know, is that? Do you have enough time to do it? Well, because if it's just all I'm going to post something once, then why are you even there? Unless you're really and I keep going to the word that you say, and because I think it's really key, is have I planned a strategy out? Because if you're going to do it, why am I doing it? What am I expecting out of this and is this right for my business versus Oh, it's just sounds good because it's fun. Yeah, exactly, that's very much so. And I think sometimes, even, you know, things like an IDA or bigger conferences where we're looking at what is the newest thing, sometimes that very well might be the right thing to do if it is the closest thing between you and more business right. And I think a lot of that tends to apply a lot more to the ECOMMERCE world than outside of the ECOMMERCE world. But pulling all of those things together to say, if you had to choose between instagram and Tick Tock, which would you choose? Would you write? Would you push that away entirely and sort of give it that real analysis rather and saying let's do it, because you will lose something most of the time, unless you're hiring another person or you've systematize something to account for that time. Is it worth losing something else? And how close is that? And I think sometimes we see individual businesses are really, really, really keen to think that they know their market their best, and I don't want to say that you know with research, any agency would know that market better, but to really think about the nuance of that market and where your market is in terms of...

...base demographics, because we're seeing, we're seeing this huge shift, I mean three or four years ago, every to saying, wells screw the millennials, they don't have any money. Here we are two thousand and twenty two now, the biggest buying segment with the most money of all things, and so it's really are people aware of even those changes which are much bigger than an individual area and individual state, province, whatever it might be, and catering to that? But do you use think platforms is do you think businesses make a mistake because they lump everybody together in these these these naming conventions, the millennials, Gen d and they have one strategy for that group. But yet at least feedback from people add that, you know certain ages where it, because I my staff is, you know, they're all in their twent S and s. They get offended when somebody says Gen Z MILLENNIAL JEN, why? Whatever generation they're in, whatever label they've been given, and they say they're all this or this is the way you mark it to them and they're going, will wait a minute. Someone says Gen Z JEN, why? They're lazy. They're going, I'm not lazy, I'm I'm yeah, you know, I own a house, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I you know. So I just feel in every age group I listen, I know people my age group that are lazy, you know. So it isn't just that. So do you think? How do you how do you break out of that mindset as a marketer, where it's, you know, we're trying to put everybody in this little box here, SA and so. Oh, great, now I make my one strategy for millennial marketing because now they have money. Yeah, I think that's a really good question. So I think that where the separation really should lie, because in the world of marketing there is a lot of assumption, there's a lot of experimentation, HMM, and then all of the then pushing everything is. It depends. So if I think about the things that offend any demographic those are things that are an assumption and not a fact. So if we look to something like the shift of, you know, buying power, that's just a fact one way or the other. And the shift of five years ago was where that was the majority of millennials in a different financial situation, unfortunately, before parents passed and inheritances. HMM, very much so. So I think it's really look a true data that apply to these assumptions rather than just saying, oh, yeah, they're they're young, they're lazy, they're you know, they're old. They don't need to you know, they don't need a truck anymore. Well, to your point is, I think what what I see, because I have a fifteen and a seventeen year old, is I just watch how they consume content differently and they want ease, but so do I. Right. So again, it's not this oh well, they don't want to do x, Y and Z. I just think that we're all used to the speed of our phone, the speed of our Internet, the fact that I could order something from Amazon today and potentially in a few hours, have it on my front porch is mind blowing to someone who is my age who said, Oh my God, you'd have to figure out if you had it, and you went to the store and maybe they did, maybe it came back, or refew ordered something. You just had to wait for weeks at a time. I just think we're all in that way now, and so I think business is really have to think about their process, because they should be marketing that in terms of how easy it is to do business would be, which have to think about that too, because it's not just the millennials who don't want to waste time. Nobody wants to waste time anymore. So again, it goes. I think we I think instead of I think, instead of saying this generation is this or this generation is this, I would just say pretty much everybody doesn't right, it goes. It goes more across all generations. From a business standpoint of how do I mark it my value to all of them and how do I tell them how it's easier to do business with me to all of them? Now you'd you might have to advertise on certain platforms to a get attention from a certain group because that's where they hang out. Okay, but I still think we make mistakes and marketing because we generalize large groups of people and miss the uniqueness that is pretty much in every generation. Yeah, I think you bring up a good point as well, where if you are the weather, whatever generation you fall into, you if you are consuming content in a quick format way, that will steer what platform you're using as a sort of as a short comparison, that is tick Tock. That's the shortest, and then to instagram reels and then, you know, to Facebook, is tends to be slower. And not to say they all don't cross together and this overall speed of content isn't moving, but the platform to a certain extent, almost take care of that a little bit for...

...you if you're doing it privately. Yeah, so I, as I said, I watch my sons, both of them. They don't really watch TV, so hitting them with a commercial wouldn't wouldn't happen for them. They'll stream, but they'd rather have the streaming platform. Dad. Can we spend money so we don't see ads? They consume content on Youtube. They're always watching youtube for their little whatever channels and what persons they're following. So video pre roll would definitely grab them, as well as instagram. Now, interestingly enough, my oldest one doesn't really post a lot on Instagram, but he follows people, but he follows brands. So he's looking at sneakers, he's looking at basketball players, he's looking at, you know, movies that he likes. So it's looking at that and saying, Oh, they're using that almost as some people would use google, in a different way. And so now you sit there and say, if I want my son's attention, if I'm selling a vehicle, I better get to him, I better start now and get my message in front of them, whatever that message is, on Youtube and preroll or whatever it is, because that's where he's hanging out. Versus all I keep running my Ott ads and it goes back to what we said before. Knowing where your audience hangs out, then you have to sort of be everywhere, but do it in a deliberate fashion where you say, probably more people on Youtube are this potentially now, and I mean it's tricky, depending on the industry, to where sometimes, if you look to something like automotive, your a lot more restricted you know, due to special ad categories and stuff like that. But at the same time, I think a big shift that people need to start to see is that pretty much everything is a search engine in some capacities. But like your example of great pausing stinkers, as Google, you'll see that people will insert read it after the end of their search query. So it could be, you know, is this service worth it or is this car good? But they'll put read it on the end of it because they're you know, there's this distrust in in certain editorial type content where if they're looking to read at they're looking to their peers, and that's same thing, and be said for Google reviews, for Youtube, for twitter, for everything. You know, looking at the when we bought our last house, I was looking for every single thing I could possibly think of to make sure that there's nothing wrong with properties right and I went through tick tock results and read it results to find long form lists and individual sort of tips that cater to that, outside of just what we would learn from our realtor, who's fantastic, but all of these things that you want to educate yourself on. People are educating themselves in the same way that they're still searching for data, but they're searching for it in a lot more places than they used to. Wear it was Google was sort of the only place that people were were looking for insights and right, you know, really low barrier to entry way for businesses to create content, whether it's written on their blog, whether it's on social is, to do this sort of you ask or they ask you answer. Concept where if you look at the questions that they're putting into Google, which you can start typing and Google will drop down for how you yes or you could use the service. There's, you've probably heard of it, answer the public, where you can put in a product and it will say here's all of the searches that people are doing about this so and then when you put that back over to Google, if you have affie Hughes about this product, you're way more likely to show up in the top results because you're answering those cause you're entering the question. So that's a great point. I think business is struggle because I've been asked this question. Well, what content should I produce? Everyone says you need to make content, and I think it ties into what you just said, is that if the consumer is looking for more peer feedback. Yes, we see your marketing and they're going to get hooked by your marketing and you're going to say, oh, that's a great add but I think then people are going to default to go read your reviews to validate your claims. Right. So you could say I'm the best in the world and people are going to they're not right. So in a simple way, I think another way, again without people think overthinking, is go ask your sales team or ask yourself. If you're a solo preneur, what are the top five questions I get asked about my business? Or what are the top questions that someone ask you, know, your salespeople or your customer service, or when they call up and they're struggling or they're asking how do I do x? Or does your product do why? You could probably come up with twenty things fairly quickly. I would bet everyone. I'll challenge everyone who's listening that when we're done with this episode, you do that. There's a little exercise. Just quickly say what are the top ten questions somebody asked me about my product, and then ask yourself, do...

...you have an answer for that on your website? Your Youtube Channel somewhere that you would say no, I don't okay, start answer people's questions. I think that's one of the best ways to your point is to have great content. It's easy and there's always something. You're never going to run out of contact because someone's always going to be asking you question, some scenario is going to come up, you're going to compare yourself to something else. So again, same thing. If somebody's buying your product, what else are they looking at? Tons of content. Let's not overthink it. I think it's a really good point. With now to take it a step further to one of the things that we ask our clients when we're chatting with them is one are the biggest pain points that your staff from different department see people complaining about, because we can help them overcome that. Whether it's so. I was really confused about what this form on your site manner. I was confused between these two products, whatever it is. Chances are there not the only person that experienced a right. So how, from the point of marketing, can we alleviate those pain points? And for some businesses they're still taking three, four days to finance a vehicle, which is I mean which is insane. You should be able to it's we're almost there and in some spots were totally there. And you know there's there's cryptocar purchases happening. But all that to say, if you can't deliver a vehicle the same day that I want to buy it, that should be step one. But for anything right, like alleviating these very common pain points that people have been resting on their worls because there's been no other choice. Somebody else is going to beat to the punch on those small little pain points. So to look at the questions, but also to look at what what hurts your customer base and maybe helps you lose business, and that's another great point. I'd love your feedback on this. So, as a marketer and your company, you know, flex dealer, also builds websites for, you know, some clients and you've built websites previously. Is that I'm I would love to hear your viewpoint on this, because it's what you just said about let's, you know, try to alleviate obstacles or friction points for our customers, like where are they? Do you find that people don't take the time to look at their own website. You know, they put it up, they've added things, they've done things, or maybe they haven't. But to really look at it and say, is this still easy for my customers to you? So to your point is someone will fill out a form. Is it easier or how many people start the form but don't finish? Right? We don't look at that. We look at how many people filled out a form, but how many started, how many did? And you know, like, when was the last time that you went on your website and tried to buy your own product? Is it easy? I was so what are your thoughts around that, you know, because again, we constantly will mark it when we think marketing, we're like push out, get people to our website. But to your point is, if we give them a horrible experience when they get here, did we waste our money? Is that part? That part of marketing as well, to sort of audit the landing pad where we're sending our customers? I would I would venture to say that yes, it is, and it's one of those things where there's, I see a lot of variability and that there's some people who are very married to every little piece of their website and I love that because there's there's infinite fuel. There are things that we can do in ways that we can iterate together and when things are ignored, if you have a great agency behind you that's looking at those things and you can trust in that, that's amazing. That's yes, that's great, no complaints. But there's so much variability it's almost tough to sort of say one way or the other, if you know if this is right or this is wrong. But when people are at a bare minimum spending those marketing dollars to generate leads and then the lead calls and you go up, I don't know if that person's here, I don't know really sold that truck. That's a very different that's a different piece, but you paid for the lead and your team's butchering it. Can we help you overcome that? And that comes down to even little things like does the messaging that your website has or your ads have, does that matched? Is your sales team know about that? Is everybody aware of what the promotions are? Are they the same online as they are in person? If not, why, how is that demonstrated to the customer? And all of those little pieces. So I think there needs to be a certain level of cohesion between businesses and their marketing agencies or their marketing individual in house, as well as a great deal of trust. It is a big deal. If you look at the numbers, even of the smallest sites, that's still a lot of people that you're you're meeting through a secy every day. Yes, and I think that's a great that's another great point is that I think sometimes we put the cart before the Horse, so to speaks, meaning that, oh it's great marketing. I cut D I come back from an event or I come back from meeting other people or I see somebody else, competitor, doing something like we're going to do this, and I'm on the phone with the marketer and say let's go do this. But before we do that, we better think to ourselves. Can I deliver on that? To your point is...

...is that if I can market till I'm blow in the face, I can drive tons of traffic, I can make your phone ring, but if you don't answer the phone, if it's not a great experience, well then you're wasting money. So again, I think it's it's always through the lens of is this right for my company? Can I deliver on this? Whatever I'm saying. If not, well, I have to either figure out how to deliver on it before I, you know, spend money, or maybe it's a couple tweaks here there. But I think that's really key because again, quick ideas. I see it's this idea of rushing to marketing. Got To rush, can lose, can lose. Got To get there, got to get the calls, got to get the website. Try, but in reality is you're losing if everything's not thought out and connected to what's going on. Because, guess what, people have a megaphone now and they're going to say they're going to put a review out there and go this was not what I thought it was going to be, so now I have to overcome that. So again it's a this odd vicious cycle versus taking a breath and saying, is this right for us or not? Yeah, and I think that brings up a good point of sustainability as well, where sometimes the most digital can shoot itself in the foot where, okay, you fire up new campaigns, that websites ready to to receive them and everything works. That's great, that's what you want, but at the same time, if you're not doing the other pieces that surround that of what are you doing in your community? Do People see you? Do People know what your team looks like? Do they know the actual benefits of your product? That will eventually stall out and you're not serving those people down the line. So that sort of short sight, isn't it a shortsightedness? All ties back into having a plan. How are you inurturing the people who, yeah, they clicked it, it, they interacted, but they didn't buy the thing. Are you retargeting them? Are you making sure that you're there's saying awareness to follow your word? To your point, what if they did buy and are they willing to say yes, I want Oh, that was great, or they going to become an advocate? Or was this just a onetime sale versus? How do I retain them? How do I get them back again, depending on your product and time frame of when they would purchase again, you know, to your point, getting a house, well, I'm not getting a house for a while, but you will recommend that realtor to say that was a great experience, you know, but for most companies the buying cycle might be shorter. You know. So why wouldn't I want to retain we spend a lot of time acquiring customers. What are we doing to retain our customers? How do we build that experience? And I really love that point. And then, I don't want to let it slide by, is does everyone in the building know what the marketing is? Is Everyone in agreement with what we're marketing, meaning this is what we're delivering, because we'd can deliver on this. It's getting everyone involved so they do understand that their actions are supporting the marketing message. You know what they are doing here in the brick and mortar or online or interacting with the customers, everything is marketing or supporting the marketing. So the customers walk away going that was great, I want to come back. Just make sense and it's all it's all trust, it's all cohesion, it all goes together and I think that can be very quickly missed for people, unfortunately. So it's building that in. I mean sometimes it could be something where it has been important for a very long time and your marketing pushes on this, the copy on your website pushes on this, but then all of a sudden the staff that offer that service have quit or gotten sick or whatever it might be, and you can't offer that. You know the people that are producing marketing collateral about that and need to know about that absolutely. Wise you'll have people calling you and say, Hey, I need to book this. Oh sorry, we can't, or Oh that's a two moonth wait right then, why are why are you spending money marketing? It? Exactly, I think, and and I really again, that idea of connection, where one hand is not operating in a silo from the other hand and they don't know and everyone's on auto pilot, going well, I'm just going to keep advertising this and, low and behold, something has changed. I think it's it. Is it it? I like that idea that you said, or that wording that you said, a sustainability. It is this idea of it's all connected. One change over here has a ripple effect over here. Am I prepared? Am I aware? Are they aware? It's not easy, but at the same moment in time, if it always flows through the lens of this is who I am as a company. Here's the experience I want my customers to feel. When I leave and then I'm training people to do this, then I can market, then I can create technology, then I can know all of that works. Hand in hand. But if I don't start there, all I'm doing is adding on marketing campaigns to generate traffic and then all of a sudden it looks like a you know, the Frankenstein Monster. It doesn't resemble what I'm marketing, doesn't resemble what they get when they show up...

...or interact with the team, and then I'm just you were in a vicious cycle of trying to fix bad reviews and no, I'm sorry, and it's it's just to your point. You've said it multiple times. It's a waste of money, it's a waste of time if it's not all cohesive, and I think sometimes too. Part of the downfall is the things that work are often not very sexy, and there's so many sexy things in the world of technology where, yeah, of course you want to try it, and I relate to that and I empathize with that and don't necessarily I think new is always bad. By any means a big NERD. Of course I'm here for all the new tech, but the things that work and consistently work and why they work and optimize thing and looking at the data, all these things that make everything work to its best right often are very unsexy, and so sometimes it's just a matter of if you're in person does this, are you doing good business? Right, then you need to do the same online, because it's not that different. Yes, there's all of these technical things that you need somebody that you trust to handle, but at the same time, are you doing good business? Could you convince me to buy from you in a ten second elevator ride that elevator pitch? Why is your commodity different from any right else? Right? Those very basic questions. It would, I mean, probably wouldn't surprise you, but there's so many people you ask that too, and they don't know they can't sell their own business that they or their family have owned for twenty years in well, because we focus a lot of times on the product, not on what's around the product. You know, and I've mentioned this a few times on certain episodes, I worked in hospitality for years and back, way, way back, presocial media. I work for a very, you know, amazing restaurant tour in New York City and he used to say listen it. Yes, the food has to be good, he goes, but there's so many places, some that he could get a good steak, a good piece of fish in New York City. It's the experience around it that's going to make people come back, and we have to do that every single day, over and over and over again. That's what's going because word of mouth is going to get people come. And when no person comes in, who if I recommend something to you and you go in, if it's great experience, he glenn, thank you if it is, and Glenn, please don't recommend restaurants anymore to me. I think it's very similar. I don't think we talk enough about the process, the experience. Some of it is because it hasn't been well thought out, backwards from customer experience to process to the people who are going to do it. Then what tech right then? What tech makes it easy for my team to do it? What tech makes it easy for my customers to do it? Now, how do I watch it and train it and measure it and but without that sort of throughput, any decision I make is random versus will wait a minute, does this fit my business? Is this replacing something? Is this adding on to something? You know, once you have that throughput, then it's I don't want to make it sound like it's easy to do it but at least you have a frame of reference. To your point is, should I make this change? Should I advertise on ticktock? Should I do this? Should I have this message? Where am I sending these people? Is it stamp let? All of it has to be thought out, or else you're creating a you're creating more friction for your customers and obstacles. And it goes back to we don't want that anymore because because we've had too many situations now where we don't have it. So why would I want to do business somebody that's makes it hard for me to do business versus ease? I think we want ease. That's what we're all looking for. We saw we saw a great deal of that too, when it comes to the automotive side, with with the pandemic, we saw so many businesses do things that really probably they've been hesitant to do, have probably been pushed to do for quite some time. They had no choice. That was really incredible. And then you look to two thousand, two thousand and twenty one. We're all about digital retailing and you know, let's get a tool where you can do everything online, and a lot of businesses jopped to install that, but this is the silver bullet, this is how it's going to be. But then didn't do the other side of how does our team use this product? Do they know what this means? When a customer comes in and brings them this thing on their phone, do they know what's happening? And so then we saw this big downfall of half of these tools where people weren't equipped to be using them yet. So it's sort of every time that you add something on, you need to make sure that you're everybody that will be touching it in some way knows what their role with that is, and also that everybody doesn't. Everybody doesn't need to touch everything from end to end. Where every member of your team right? So sort of knowing your position on the football field. So just because, okay, your thing is to receive that. You don't need to worry about how it gets on the site. You don't need to do anything, you just need to know and the customer comes in with this, this is what you do. So sort of being equipped, being ready,...

...the sort of patients and UN sexy the you might think, kind of all comes together. And now I'd think I think that's important too, and educating your consumer, your customer about what this is. You know, sometimes people just put it on the site and people are like, what the Hell's this? I don't even know what I'm doing on this here right. So it is this idea of we have to make it clear to everybody what this is, why we have it here, what purpose does it serve for our team, for our customers, to make it easy, and I think that's a real good place sort of wind up here is this idea of you have to think everything through and be willing to take the time to make sure everything's connected before you launch, because if not, you're wasting money, you're wasting customers at time, you're wasting your team's time. While you're doing is creating frustration around instead of really thinking it through to say, if we do this correctly, we're going to create, we're going to continue to enhance the experience we want for our customers, and then on a marketing that, then I deliver on that. Now I get the great testimonials, then I can put their testimonials into my marketing mix and they validate it. So I get more people going oh great, they said this, but look at all the people who said it was let me go back in and it becomes that cycle versus disjointed and we run things on sort of hoping we deliver on what we're marketing and we don't really want that certain of life. Yes, that's a good place to stop. So all right, so let's I could chat with you all day. This tutsy. That I love about these these shows is the time just flies by when you get into a rhythm. All of seen you look at'm go, Oh my God, we've been talking for a while here. So the way I end every show as I asked five or six questions, random questions, and I call them the one so you just think of the first thing that pops into your head. So first thing, it's a two part question. If you think about yourself, like I said, I've fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year olds and I look at that transformation in junior year, ten grade, junior to senior, a lot of things going on, a lot of a lot of, a lot of ideas and things. If you look back at yourself at that time and see yourself today, what's the one common thread that's always carried through? Like you say, that's all. That's me. It's was me then, me now. So that's first part. Second Part is if the sixteen or seventeen year old you saw you now, what would they be most surprised with? Wow, the common thread would probably be something like being a little bit nerdy and you know, computers and technology, all of those pieces probably from them to now and even before then, be the common one. And maybe what would surprise probably the haircut. There you go. I love that. That's a great answer. That is a great answer. I love asking that question because people go, I never thought about that, so that's good. All right. So the next question is, I'm assuming we're all happy again, we can travel and things like that. What's the one place that you haven't traveled to that you would like to travel to? Iceland, easy, great, okay. Some of them tied in with travel. What's the one thing that you always need when you travel? Like that one one thing you cannot travel without. No, he's canceling headphones. There go, great love that. Is there a brand that you like? I have apple are pots and the bows over the years. Once it depends on how you're traveling, it gets complex these needs. So it is okay. What's a book or something you're reading, something you're listening to or watching that you would recommend to the audience. Book I recently finished is called think again by Adam Graham, and it doesn't tie necessarily into a specific business or marketing piece, but it's about being willing to rethink things that you know is factor you hold as true values, and I think that's something that so many people are missing or maybe don't even know how to approach and saying, not even saying I'm wrong and this is how I change it, but in saying is this right? Does it mean to change and breting able to understand and look inward and then how to take that outward from you, whether that's in your personal life or in business, whatever it might be. And the author does a really good job at sharing examples of how to do that and why and huge differences it's made, you know, in healthcare and business and stuff like that. So I'm saying I'm looking at it right now in my book shelf. It's great book, highly recommended. Highly recommend it. Okay, two more. I took all your friends in family, close people who know you, put them in a room and said to describe you with one word. What's the word they would use to describe you who?...

Um, I would probably say something in the line of nerdy would be. would be the adjective, because I think working in tech and worky and marketing, everybody just thinks that somehow you are the Internet and you you Internet for a living. Right, Pretty Bother Watch his friends? You don't. Nobody knows what Chandler does exactly. So probably that, because in that that ties into a lot of my other interests. Are Maybe the athletic in some way, between running and weightlifting. So one of those two. Okay, last one. We've talked about a lot of great things, great conversation. If there was one thing that you hope the audience would take away from our conversation, what's that? One thing that you would want them to get? How incredibly valuable patients is in marketing. That is grade. I love that. Yeah, I could not agree more. Wow, that's a good one too. Listen. Thank you so much. This has been phenomenal conversation. So tell the audience how they can find you. Where to find you online, where you hang out social where they can connect with you folks you should follow and connect with with. But go ahead and tell them where to find you. Yep, I am at with nor ad, W HNO or a D, All the social platforms, Whnur, adcom and flex eithercom great, great. So please do so, folks. Thank you again. Audience. You know the drill here at the end of every episode. What do I ask you to do? I tell you, please think of someone in your network who would benefit from this conversation. Please share this episode out with us. Please leave us a review. It helps other people find the podcast. And always subscribe, because you'll get the updates when we put out episodes every single week. Again, our goal of this podcast is to help those of you who find yourself in charge build those skills up so that when you're sitting there thinking to yourself, I'm in charge, but what do I do, we're here every single week with guests like with to help you build up those skills. Again, I know there's a lot of places that you could get your content and watch your content. Fact that you spend time with both of us to date means the world to me. Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you on the next episode with again, absolute pleasure. Thank you again for being here. Thanks then, appreciate it. Only.

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